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From peter reilly <peter.rei...@corvil.com>
Subject Re: AW: Graphical editor of the Build.xml
Date Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:32:42 GMT
Maybe I was a bit quick to say that the
article is ridiculous.
The article does however use the attribute is element text
syntax to make a some  strawman examples.

Peter

On Wednesday 04 June 2003 16:05, Matt Benson wrote:
> Definitely WAY better than make files, no question.
> But the point Ter makes in the article is interesting:
>  XML, while useful for representing data, is contrary
> in structure to our instinctive thought processes.  I
> can't prove how your thought processes work, but it
> would make sense for these to be reflected in the
> structure of spoken language.  I suppose this comes
> back to machines interpreting human language to do
> useful work, which is a long way off and would
> probably put most of us out of a job.
>
> -Matt
>
> --- peter reilly <peter.reilly@corvil.com> wrote:
> > That is one ridiculous article.
> >
> > I have always found the syntax of
> > ant scripts easier than the nonsense of make files.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > On Wednesday 04 June 2003 15:38, Matt Benson wrote:
> > > Again, I think such a tool probably would be very
> > > clumsy; I was only trying to answer the original
> > > question as I interpreted it.  However, you can
> >
> > read
> >
> > > an argument in favor of such a tool abstracting
> >
> > the
> >
> > > build.xml into some other representation in
> >
> > Terence
> >
> > > Parr's article "Humans should not have to grok
> >
> > XML":
>
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-sbxml.html
>
> > > -Matt
> > >
> > > --- Jan.Materne@rzf.fin-nrw.de wrote:
> > > > No, yes, ...
> > > > We think that the original questions goes in
> >
> > that
> >
> > > > direction, but
> > > > that wasn´t quite clear. What is a "graphical
> >
> > IDE"?
> >
> > > > We gave some examples on text based editors with
> > > > nice features like
> > > > syntax highlighting and more.
> > > > For "reverse engeneering" the buildfile we have
> > > > VizAnt.
> > > > But we don´t know any tools for "forward
> >
> > engeneer"
> >
> > > > buildfiles from
> > > > any kind of models - and we thought, that this
> >
> > isn´t
> >
> > > > very useful, because
> > > > to much special things have to specified
> >
> > therefore
> >
> > > > direct writing is quite
> > > > easier and faster.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > > Von: Matt Benson [mailto:gudnabrsam@yahoo.com]
> > > > > Gesendet am: Dienstag, 3. Juni 2003 23:25
> > > > > An: Ant Users List
> > > > > Betreff: Re: Graphical editor of the Build.xml
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh, that... I had read that before; I thought
> >
> > we
> >
> > > > were
> > > >
> > > > > talking about a way to graphically edit build
> > > >
> > > > files.
> > > >
> > > > > -Matt
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Jacob Kjome <hoju@visi.com> wrote:
> > > > > > You need to install the native graphviz
> >
> > program
> >
> > > > for
> > > >
> > > > > > your particular
> > > > > > platform and then grab vizant from here:
> > > > > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/vizant
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then do something like...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >      <target name="vizant">
> > > > > >          <taskdef name="vizant"
> > > > > > classname="net.sourceforge.vizant.Vizant"
> > > > > > classpath="${vizant.jar}"/>
> > > > > >          <vizant antfile="build.xml"
> > > > > > outfile="build.dot"/>
> > > > > >          <exec executable="dot"
> > > > > > failifexecutionfails="false"
> > > > > > resultproperty="graphvizSuccess!">
> > > > > >              <arg line="-Tpng build.dot -o
> > > > > > build.png"/>
> > > > > >          </exec>
> > > > > >          <fail unless="graphvizSuccess!">
> > > > > >          You probably need to install
> >
> > GraphViz
> >
> > > > which
> > > >
> > > > > > is a native program,
> > > > > >          not a Java library &gt;&gt;&gt;
> >
> > http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/
> >
> > > > > >          </fail>
> > > > > >      </target>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jake
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 01:34 PM 6/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > > > >I visited the link but it wasn't
> >
> > immediately
> >
> > > > > > obvious
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >to me how to use this tool with Ant.  Can
> >
> > you
> >
> > > > > > >elaborate?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Thanks,
> > > > > > >Matt
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- Markus Dettori
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <markus.dettori@wuerth-phoenix.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tuesday, June 03, 2003 4:36 PM
> > > >
> > > > [GMT+1=CET],
> > > >
> > > > > > > > Jan.Materne@rzf.fin-nrw.de
> > > > > > > > <Jan.Materne@rzf.fin-nrw.de> scribbled
> > > >
> > > > earlier:
> > > > > > > > > Mmm, I thought about writing such a
> > > >
> > > > generator
> > > >
> > > > > > > > (XMI->build.xml) but, you have
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > specifiy so much in the model - I
> >
> > don´t
> >
> > > > think
> > > >
> > > > > > that
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > this would be really
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > useful.
> > > > > > > > > Writing the buildfile manually is then
> > > >
> > > > much
> > > >
> > > > > > more
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > comfortable and already
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > supported.
> > > > > > > > > With Vizant (I think there are more)
> >
> > you
> >
> > > > can
> > > >
> > > > > > > > create a "diagram" of your
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > buildfile,
> > > > > > > > > so you can get an overview.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jan
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > FYI/BTW:
> > > > > > > > in order to visualize your build.xml I
> >
> > found
> >
> > > > it
> > > >
> > > > > > > > useful to use the Graphviz-Tool.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/
> > > >
> > > > > > > > easily integrateable with ant.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greetz
> > > > > > > > Markus
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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