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From Matt Benson <gudnabr...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: AW: Graphical editor of the Build.xml
Date Wed, 04 Jun 2003 15:05:48 GMT
Definitely WAY better than make files, no question. 
But the point Ter makes in the article is interesting:
 XML, while useful for representing data, is contrary
in structure to our instinctive thought processes.  I
can't prove how your thought processes work, but it
would make sense for these to be reflected in the
structure of spoken language.  I suppose this comes
back to machines interpreting human language to do
useful work, which is a long way off and would
probably put most of us out of a job.

-Matt


--- peter reilly <peter.reilly@corvil.com> wrote:
> That is one ridiculous article.
> 
> I have always found the syntax of
> ant scripts easier than the nonsense of make files.
> 
> Peter
> On Wednesday 04 June 2003 15:38, Matt Benson wrote:
> > Again, I think such a tool probably would be very
> > clumsy; I was only trying to answer the original
> > question as I interpreted it.  However, you can
> read
> > an argument in favor of such a tool abstracting
> the
> > build.xml into some other representation in
> Terence
> > Parr's article "Humans should not have to grok
> XML":
> >
> >
>
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-sbxml.html
> >
> > -Matt
> >
> > --- Jan.Materne@rzf.fin-nrw.de wrote:
> > > No, yes, ...
> > > We think that the original questions goes in
> that
> > > direction, but
> > > that wasnīt quite clear. What is a "graphical
> IDE"?
> > > We gave some examples on text based editors with
> > > nice features like
> > > syntax highlighting and more.
> > > For "reverse engeneering" the buildfile we have
> > > VizAnt.
> > > But we donīt know any tools for "forward
> engeneer"
> > > buildfiles from
> > > any kind of models - and we thought, that this
> isnīt
> > > very useful, because
> > > to much special things have to specified
> therefore
> > > direct writing is quite
> > > easier and faster.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > Von: Matt Benson [mailto:gudnabrsam@yahoo.com]
> > > > Gesendet am: Dienstag, 3. Juni 2003 23:25
> > > > An: Ant Users List
> > > > Betreff: Re: Graphical editor of the Build.xml
> > > >
> > > > Oh, that... I had read that before; I thought
> we
> > >
> > > were
> > >
> > > > talking about a way to graphically edit build
> > >
> > > files.
> > >
> > > > -Matt
> > > >
> > > > --- Jacob Kjome <hoju@visi.com> wrote:
> > > > > You need to install the native graphviz
> program
> > >
> > > for
> > >
> > > > > your particular
> > > > > platform and then grab vizant from here:
> > > > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/vizant
> > > > >
> > > > > Then do something like...
> > > > >
> > > > >      <target name="vizant">
> > > > >          <taskdef name="vizant"
> > > > > classname="net.sourceforge.vizant.Vizant"
> > > > > classpath="${vizant.jar}"/>
> > > > >          <vizant antfile="build.xml"
> > > > > outfile="build.dot"/>
> > > > >          <exec executable="dot"
> > > > > failifexecutionfails="false"
> > > > > resultproperty="graphvizSuccess!">
> > > > >              <arg line="-Tpng build.dot -o
> > > > > build.png"/>
> > > > >          </exec>
> > > > >          <fail unless="graphvizSuccess!">
> > > > >          You probably need to install
> GraphViz
> > >
> > > which
> > >
> > > > > is a native program,
> > > > >          not a Java library &gt;&gt;&gt;
> > > > >
> http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/
> > > > >          </fail>
> > > > >      </target>
> > > > >
> > > > > Jake
> > > > >
> > > > > At 01:34 PM 6/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > > > > >I visited the link but it wasn't
> immediately
> > > > >
> > > > > obvious
> > > > >
> > > > > >to me how to use this tool with Ant.  Can
> you
> > > > > >elaborate?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Thanks,
> > > > > >Matt
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- Markus Dettori
> > > > >
> > > > > <markus.dettori@wuerth-phoenix.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, June 03, 2003 4:36 PM
> > >
> > > [GMT+1=CET],
> > >
> > > > > > > Jan.Materne@rzf.fin-nrw.de
> > > > > > > <Jan.Materne@rzf.fin-nrw.de> scribbled
> > >
> > > earlier:
> > > > > > > > Mmm, I thought about writing such a
> > >
> > > generator
> > >
> > > > > > > (XMI->build.xml) but, you have
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > specifiy so much in the model - I
> donīt
> > >
> > > think
> > >
> > > > > that
> > > > >
> > > > > > > this would be really
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > useful.
> > > > > > > > Writing the buildfile manually is then
> > >
> > > much
> > >
> > > > > more
> > > > >
> > > > > > > comfortable and already
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > supported.
> > > > > > > > With Vizant (I think there are more)
> you
> > >
> > > can
> > >
> > > > > > > create a "diagram" of your
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > buildfile,
> > > > > > > > so you can get an overview.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > FYI/BTW:
> > > > > > > in order to visualize your build.xml I
> found
> > >
> > > it
> > >
> > > > > > > useful to use the Graphviz-Tool.
> > >
> > > http://www.research.att.com/sw/tools/graphviz/
> > >
> > > > > > > easily integrateable with ant.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Greetz
> > > > > > > Markus
> > >
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
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> 
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