Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-jakarta-ant-user-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 66583 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 16:22:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO nagoya.betaversion.org) (192.18.49.131) by daedalus.apache.org with SMTP; 1 Mar 2002 16:22:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 17690 invoked by uid 97); 1 Mar 2002 16:22:05 -0000 Delivered-To: qmlist-jakarta-archive-ant-user@jakarta.apache.org Received: (qmail 17665 invoked by uid 97); 1 Mar 2002 16:22:05 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ant-user-help@jakarta.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Help: List-Post: List-Id: "Ant Users List" Reply-To: "Ant Users List" Delivered-To: mailing list ant-user@jakarta.apache.org Received: (qmail 17652 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2002 16:22:04 -0000 Message-ID: <3C7FAAA6.FCD1454E@eblox.com> Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:21:58 -0700 From: Drew Davidson Organization: eBlox, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ant Users List CC: ant-dev Subject: Re: Determine target's name References: <20020228202345.31672.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com> <3C7E9CE5.CA19713D@eblox.com> <011801c1c112$98b1dd50$6601a8c0@darden.virginia.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: daedalus.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N X-Spam-Rating: daedalus.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N Erik Hatcher wrote: > Welcome to ant-user, Drew my friend! :) I was waiting to post on this > issue until others had gotten a chance to weigh in on it. > > I have corresponded with Drew on this issue via private e-mail quite a bit > and have even pushed back on him with the same "give me a use-case" speech. > I certainly cannot do justice to his scenario by explaining it myself, but > the idea is that he wants to drop in sub-projects into his directory > structure and have them "auto-detected" and incorporated into a master build > routine automatically. Drew, is this accurate? Could you elaborate on your > scenario a bit if I'm not explaining it properly? Yes, this is accurate. I would like to have my source organized into logical groupings (such as packages, webapps, etc.) and have these auto-detected at runtime and passed to generic targets for "compile_and_copy_resources" and "build-web-app" and "deploy-web-app" rather than having to declare each one and to the targets manually. Then I don't have to modify my build file every time I add a component. Also (to Diane primarily) I have been talking with Erik quite a lot in the past and I realize now that this was my first post on the subject to ant-user; obviously the state that I was in from talking with Erik was inconsistent with the perceived state on this list (it looks like I just jumped in and started bitching). Diane, please don't take offense at my posts; from your perspective there really was no justification for my immediate move to "rant". I really do with to be constructive with ant, because I really enjoy using it and it does a good job (and fast!) given it's current goals. > I have even pushed back on Drew to get involved with ant-dev to explain this > to everyone and to even make a patch and submit it. I have even prodded him > to write a "crawler" task to be bascially an . Certainly this is one way to go; it still requires knowing the target to properly dispatch to the right target. > After mulling this over a fair bit, I do believe his use-case is valid > (because I can't think of a reason to *not* provide the target name). While > some will say this is a slippery slope to Ant becoming a scripting language, > I don't think so. Why shouldn't Ant provide this context to to tasks? I > liken Ant to JSP/Taglibs a fair bit, and within a taglib you have access to > page, request, session, and application scope contexts. Is there a reason > Ant should not provide similar "scoping"? Taglibs are all about making > JSP's *not* scripty - to get rid of <% %> junk. Exactly so, wrt JSP. Perhaps if ant would be more like JSP in that regard (with templates, iteration capable, etc.) I wouldn't have to graft this on the front end with my custom stuff. > So, for the record, I am +1 on us adding the main target name being executed > to Ant (probably as "ant.target.name"). I'm CC'ing ant-dev. While Drew's > rant on ant-user was certainly harsh, he's been brewing this issue over with > me privately some in the past so he was not posting on this issue for the > first time, only for the first time on the list. > > It may likely get veto'd by ant-dev. And I personally don't have the time > to make this change, so if it gets accepted, Drew, will you supply the patch > for it? I can't promise anything but I'll look into it. > But, in the mean time, I have these requests/suggestions for Drew: > > 1) Why not make this change to a local copy of Ant yourself and save > yourself the trouble of writing your own build file generator? Then the > patch is ready, you'll learn the good/bad/ugly of Ant's source code, and you > can always run your own version of Ant forever! :) I think that the current line of thinking on ant development is still declarative, rather than scripting. > 2) If you do continue on the build file generator path (as others have done, > so you may be reinventing the wheel on this, check the archives of ant-dev), > would you submit it back to ant-dev at the very least for archive purposes, > or perhaps we even commit it to our CVS? The template parser is, right now, a private thing that I use in my web framework. Open sourcing it is definitely in my plan, but until that is resolved I can't promise anything. > 3) Question: how are you able to determine the target at run time with your > template pre-processor? You mean you are just able to supply it statically > into the generated build files, correct? The pre-processor runs before it starts ant - you basically call my program which calls ant so it knows the target list before passing it to ant. > p.s. No offense to any other Java developers out there that I know > personally, but Drew is by far the sharpest and most innovative Java > developer/architect I've ever had the pleasure of working with. He is truly > "ahead of his time" architecturally and the things I've seen him build push > the envelope of my comprehension. Thanks, Erik. - Drew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional commands, e-mail: