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From Rolf Katzenberger <>
Subject Re: [POLL] jakarta-ant-templates (Generic Ant-based project templates)
Date Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:05:00 GMT
Hi Jeff,

On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:45:22 +1100, Jeff Turner
<> wrote:

>So can I add "the build
>system formerly known as Jeff's"? ;)

To the attic, yes. ;-)


1. to deal with the "old" stuff, I suggest that you add your files to
the repository and the deployables as another zip file to another
Sourceforge "package"

2. Both of us remove all of our files from CVS so that they're left in
the attic only.

3. We start from scratch with a new directory structure, maybe
building on older files but not simply copying them.

Since it seems we can agree on a common goal, let's start talking
about the initial contents and directory structure. I suspect it would
evolve iteratively and incrementally anyway.

So here are my first questions and preferences, please comment:

- fractal directory structure?

I prefer this because it helped me to keep modular building blocks
together. I like Ant's pattern capabilities, but frankly I prefer not
to maintain filter expressions by hand that sort out what /source or
/doc subdirectories belong to what modular building block.

On the other hand, a centralistic structure allows for an extreme
number of modular building blocks that do not need to be disjoint.

- text formats rather than binaries?

I prefer text formats for documentation. It seems that most CVS users
do so.

On the other hand, we have "portable" document formats like that of
StarOffice, which might be more convenient for the average user since
it can be edited in a WYSIWYG (?) manner.

- documentation format

I prefer more "processable mainstream", because I do not really feel
comfortable with "format lock-in". I could handle LaTex as well, but I
feel that HTML-style documentation could be handled easier by more
people. Jakarta uses XML-based stuff, which is easy to edit but hard
to layout, but who cares for layout, then? ;-) In Antheap, so far I
used XHTML (and CSS) as starting point which I process to PDFs (using
XSLT and FOP).

On the other hand, formats like LaTex can provide supreme typography.

As a fractal directory structure, I'd suggest

+--doc (project doc)
+--source (Java sources)
+--lib (external jars, plus their license files)

I am not sure about source-like files like images, property files,

>Aw. No 'obfuscated buildfile' competitions then? Oh well.. if you insist
>;) Those nasty ant-devvers have made obfuscation hard already, with all
>their 'declarative' and 'keep the core simple' talk..

Great idea - lets add this item (obfuscated build file contest)... :o)

Looking forward to your comments,

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