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To: ant-user@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: Psychology and community.
References: <200106051733.f55HXJ930236@smtp.ufl.edu>
From: Stefan Bodewig <bodewig@apache.org>
Date: 06 Jun 2001 09:03:56 +0200
In-Reply-To: asr@ufl.edu's message of "Tue, 05 Jun 2001 13:33:19 -0400"
Message-ID: <m3d78i3x9f.fsf@bodewig.bost.de>
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Allan,

I think you've gotten some bad responses as my experience with this
list is quite different from yours.  I know, I'm one of those people
from "the other side" with regard to this discussion, but that has not
always been true.

<asr@ufl.edu> wrote:

> Responding "Well, submit a patch, then" to every gripe has several
> flaws.

Does this really happen?

I usually mark an email with a gripe as "come back to it later" and
respond with something like "You are right. Do you want to submit a
patch?" - the time I can spend on Ant is limited and things get fixed
a lot sooner if I don't have to code up a patch myself, obviously.

This doesn't mean that things wouldn't get changed without a volunteer
patch by somebody else - it just takes longer.

>  + The griper is familliar enough with development tools to
>  mechanically accomplish a patch generation

People have submitted complete modified files instead of "diff" output
more than once and I've committed such changes more than once.  Of
course things are easier if I can see what has changed in one glance,
that's why we prefer diff output.

>  + The griper is sufficiently familiar with java that they are
>  capable of coding the new behavior

Most "submit a patch" requests apply to documentation - which makes
that "The griper is sufficiently familiar with English".  Well, I'm
German and dare to touch the documentation anyway - I always can lean
on Diane to fix the worst glitches (thanks ;-).

>  + The griper is sufficiently familiar with ant that they are
>  capable of presenting a patch from which the maintainers will not
>  flee, holding their noses.

I can't remember that this has ever happened.

> Additionally, it presents a tremendously arrogant perspective to the
> rest of the user (and thus potential developer) community.

If this was true, we'd really have a problem. I just don't think that
"submit a patch" *is* the standard answer, sorry.  I may be wrong, of
course.

> I've gotten and seen this response several times.  I'm trying to
> shut up and soldier for my own part.

Please don't.

> The sum message is that the ant-clue don't think enough of the
> feedback to even respond politely.

I really hope that this is not the common impression.

Stefan