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From Ben Evans <>
Subject Re: Is there a real(!) advantage of Ivy over placing the depends in the VCS
Date Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:58:45 GMT
Kirby Files <> wrote on 11/09/2009 14:45:09:
> Sebastian Krysmanski wrote on 09/11/2009 04:16 AM:
> > So the tradeoff is:
> >
> > * without Ivy: slower initial checkout; but easier to use (works out 
of the
> > box) and easier to manage (simply place every necessary library in the 
> > repository)
> > * with Ivy: faster initial checkout; but not as easy to use (need to 
run Ivy
> > at least once; need to run Ivy every time the dependencies' versions 
> > and more "difficult" to manage (it's prudent to setup a private 
> > which must be maintained/managed in some way)
> I wouldn't really agree with this summary, but YMMV. Most people on 
> this list have come to find Ivy because of the issues they faced with 
> their previous build systems. Since you aren't seeing issues right 
> now, you are unlikely to find the learning curve of Ivy worthwhile.

Agreed, but it's worth noting that the OP didn't provide much information 
about his/her
project. What is appropriate for a 2-person shop writing a few CMS plugins 
to support their
sales team is unlikely to be suitable for an enterprise group with 
hundreds of developers 
that requires a build system with integration hooks for IT management 
reporting and 
can enforce use of specific bundles of libraries, and which can get a new 
contract developer 
up and coding in a few hours (and comes with a pony, of course).
> One thing that I haven't seen discussed, however, in this thread, is 
> synchronization of dependencies between build (Ant) and devlopment 
> (Eclipse). Before Ivy, we had a terrible time keeping classpaths in 
> sync. We'd have to update build scripts to check for the presence of 
> required jars, and also add the jars to the Eclipse project. The 
> latter task was frequently done haphazardly by junior developers in a 
> way that was specific to their own environment. The result was that a 
> developer checking out a project for the first time had some work to 
> do getting the classpath correct to be able to compile the project 
> within Eclipse (the build system was in better shape, since Continuous 
> Integration ensured the classpath was OK -- plus Ant has filesets).
> With the IvyDE plugin, this is hugely improved. All dependencies are 
> managed in the ivy.xml, which provides the classpath for both the 
> build system and the IDE.

In my experience, this is true - the situation is much improved. However, 
as ever,
the devil is in the detail, and in Java development, both devil and detail 
classloading and its attendant issues.

Ben Evans
eFX Algorithmic Trading
Deutsche Bank, London
Office: +44 (0)20 7541 3953


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