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From Ben Evans <ben.ev...@db.com>
Subject Re: Is there a real(!) advantage of Ivy over placing the depends in the VCS
Date Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:58:45 GMT
Kirby Files <kfiles@masergy.com> wrote on 11/09/2009 14:45:09:
> Sebastian Krysmanski wrote on 09/11/2009 04:16 AM:
> > So the tradeoff is:
> >
> > * without Ivy: slower initial checkout; but easier to use (works out 
of the
> > box) and easier to manage (simply place every necessary library in the 
VCS
> > repository)
> > * with Ivy: faster initial checkout; but not as easy to use (need to 
run Ivy
> > at least once; need to run Ivy every time the dependencies' versions 
change)
> > and more "difficult" to manage (it's prudent to setup a private 
repository
> > which must be maintained/managed in some way)
> 
> I wouldn't really agree with this summary, but YMMV. Most people on 
> this list have come to find Ivy because of the issues they faced with 
> their previous build systems. Since you aren't seeing issues right 
> now, you are unlikely to find the learning curve of Ivy worthwhile.

Agreed, but it's worth noting that the OP didn't provide much information 
about his/her
project. What is appropriate for a 2-person shop writing a few CMS plugins 
to support their
sales team is unlikely to be suitable for an enterprise group with 
hundreds of developers 
that requires a build system with integration hooks for IT management 
reporting and 
can enforce use of specific bundles of libraries, and which can get a new 
contract developer 
up and coding in a few hours (and comes with a pony, of course).
 
> One thing that I haven't seen discussed, however, in this thread, is 
> synchronization of dependencies between build (Ant) and devlopment 
> (Eclipse). Before Ivy, we had a terrible time keeping classpaths in 
> sync. We'd have to update build scripts to check for the presence of 
> required jars, and also add the jars to the Eclipse project. The 
> latter task was frequently done haphazardly by junior developers in a 
> way that was specific to their own environment. The result was that a 
> developer checking out a project for the first time had some work to 
> do getting the classpath correct to be able to compile the project 
> within Eclipse (the build system was in better shape, since Continuous 
> Integration ensured the classpath was OK -- plus Ant has filesets).
> 
> With the IvyDE plugin, this is hugely improved. All dependencies are 
> managed in the ivy.xml, which provides the classpath for both the 
> build system and the IDE.

In my experience, this is true - the situation is much improved. However, 
as ever,
the devil is in the detail, and in Java development, both devil and detail 
are 
classloading and its attendant issues.

Ben
-- 
Ben Evans
eFX Algorithmic Trading
Deutsche Bank, London
Office: +44 (0)20 7541 3953


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