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From "Xavier Hanin" <xavier.ha...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Ivy settings management from Ant (was Re: can i call ivy:configure multiple times with different configuration files(which in turn refers different ivy.xmls)?)
Date Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:12:22 GMT
On 6/25/07, Jeffrey Blattman <jeffrey.blattman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> see inline ...
>
> Xavier Hanin wrote:
> > On 6/25/07, Jeffrey Blattman <jeffrey.blattman@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> sorry if i'm lost a little, but this is what i'd expect as a user ...
> >>
> >> <ivy:settings/> assumes a default id of "ivy.instance" (or whatever),
> >> and any other task that takes a settingsId assumes a default of
> >> "ivy.instance" if it's not specified.
> >>
> >> and of course, <ivy:settings id="X" file="..."/> is valid, and any
> other
> >> task that takes a settingsId attr , and uses "X" will use the settings
> >> defined by the associated ivy:settings.
> >>
> >> this is what is intuitive from a user's perspective, so it'd be good if
> >> there'd by a way to make the code work like this.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for your feedback Jeffrey.
> > I agree with your feeling, the problem is that the only way to do what
> > you
> > want is to define ivy:settings as a task. And if it's a task, you
> > can't use
> > it with the following syntax:
> > <ivy:resolve>
> >  <ivy:settings file="">
> > </ivy:resolve>
> > which has the advantage of making scoping obvious (with no need for an
> > id).
> >
> that is interesting, but i would have never thought to try that. for me,
> it is more intuitive to do it w/ references ...
>
> <ivy:settings id="x" file="..."/>
> <ivy:resolve settingsId="x"/>
> > So my proposition is to keep the configure task (which would behave
> > exactly
> > as you expect from the settings), and use settings only with an id or
> > within
> > a post settings task (as you would do with a fileset or any other ant
> > datatypes).
> >
> > Does it make sense?
> i hope i am not insulting insulting anyone, but i get the feeling that
> might be over engineering to some degree. for users, it may be more
> important, for a particular task, to have one obvious way to achieve it
> as opposed to having multiple ways. then the user has to research which
> is better and why they should use one over the other.
>
> for example, is:
>
> /<ivy:resolve>
> <ivy:settings file="">
> </ivy:resolve>
> /
> solving a use case that can't be achieved via:
>
> /<ivy:settings id="x" file="..."/>
> <ivy:resolve settingsId="x"/>
> /
> or is it just giving the user another way to do the same thing? if i was
> a new user, i'd look at the ivy:settings and ivy:configure, and have to
> do some reading to understand the difference between them.
>
> just my $0.02 ... hope this feedback is of some help.


Yes it is. Feedback from users is the best way to achieve a good product!

I understand your point of view, maybe we should consider only one way and
forget about embedding the settings (and thus use a task instead of a
datatype). I think the original idea behind the datatype was brought by
people very comfortable with ant who didn't catch at first time the relation
between the Ivy tasks. There is no other ant task which are dependent on one
another like that, using datatypes is more usual.

I won't fight for the datatype, even if I find the solution elegant, I'm
used to the way the task work, and using an id for scoping is fine for me.

Maybe we should start another thread to get more user feedback?


regardless,  your
> project has been a life saver for us. thank you.


Thanks a lot, it's the best reward we can get from the time we invest in the
project!

Xavier


>
> > Xavier
> >
> > Gilles Scokart wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Xavier Hanin [mailto:xavier.hanin@gmail.com]
> >> >> Sent: lundi 25 juin 2007 16:47
> >> >> To: ivy-user@incubator.apache.org
> >> >> Subject: Re: Ivy settings management from Ant (was Re: can i call
> >> >> ivy:configure multiple times with different configuration
> files(which
> >> in
> >> >> turn refers different ivy.xmls)?)
> >> >>
> >> >> On 6/25/07, Gilles Scokart <gscokart@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I think I was not clear in my explanations, sorry.
> >> >>> What I would like to have is :
> >> >>>
> >> >>> - When deprecated <configure> is used, no scoping is
> >> >>> available.  settingsRef
> >> >>> in task doesn't make sense
> >> >>>
> >> >> Does it mean that if you use settingsRef in a task it will raise an
> >> error?
> >> >> Even if you use settingsRef="ivy.instance"? I thought the call to
> >> >> configure
> >> >> with no id was equivalent to <ivy:settings id="ivy.instance"/>.
Is
> it
> >> >> right?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Currently on the trunk, yes, you are right.  I just said that it
> >> didn't
> >> make
> >> > sense, so for me it could raise an error or we could keep the current
> >> > behaviour.  I'm too tired today to say which approach I would prefer.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> - When a <settings> is defined, id='...' is mandatory.  And an
error
> >> (with
> >> >> a
> >> >>
> >> >>> clear message) is triggered when a task try to use the settings
> >> >>> 'ivy.instance' (implicitely or or not) and this instance was
> created
> >> >>>
> >> >> with
> >> >>
> >> >>> a
> >> >>> <settings> without id.
> >> >>>
> >> >> Sorry, I'm not sure to fully understand this point. Do you mean
> that:
> >> >> <ivy:settings />
> >> >> <ivy:resolve settingsRef="ivy.instance" />
> >> >> will raise a clear error, saying that the id is mandatory in
> >> settings?
> >> >>
> >> >> In this case, what happen if you do this:
> >> >> <ivy:configure file="ivyconf.xml"/>
> >> >> <ivy:resolve />
> >> >> <ivy:settings file="ivysettings.xml" />
> >> >> <ivy:resolve settingsRef="ivy.instance" />
> >> >> ?
> >> >> The first resolve should run ok with the settings loaded from
> >> ivyconf.xml.
> >> >> Then will the second resolve use the first settings loaded with
> >> configure,
> >> >> the second one, or raise an error? My guess is that it will use the
> >> first
> >> >> settings. Am I right?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Currently on the trunk, again you are right.  But I'm not sure it is
> >> > intuitive.  I would prefer the second resolve call trigger an error
> >> saying
> >> > that the ivy:settings must have an id.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gilles
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>



-- 
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
Manage your dependencies with Ivy!
http://incubator.apache.org/ivy/

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