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From "James Mochel" <>
Subject RE: ApacheCon Talk
Date Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:25:31 GMT
I would suggest that the wording is simple: pragmatism versus ideology.

Ivy is oriented around getting the job done. 

Maven is oriented about getting the job done in one specific way (Their
set of best practices).

Maven is fine (if slow and ill documented ) if you are able to adhere to
their best practices. My experience is that the minute you deviate from
their best practices you are simply doomed to delving into their source
Any workaround you put in will bite you in the butt later.

Most of the time the frustration I see with users of Maven is that
ideology is cold comfort when you have to shoehorn something into their

Good Luck with the presentation,


-----Original Message-----
From: Xavier Hanin [] 
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: ApacheCon Talk

On 3/9/07, Vishal Vishnoi <> wrote:
> I like how you have presented pro's of both (Ant + Ivy) and Maven.
> My personal experience have been that Ivy WORKS :-). I've seen many
> projects trying to use Maven and crash and burn..imagine a
> build/dependency management system, which is so crippling and brittle.
> My favorite quote from someone using Maven was:
> "/I understood the technology of the project in not time. It took me
> ages to figure out how Maven works. Doing simple things is very hard.
> It's very buggy and has horrendous documentation/"
> I know you can't state this in your presentation, but just wanted to
> let you know that I'm glad Ivy is around for us to use with Ant.

Thanks for these kind words, I always appreciate them.  Maybe to reflect
what you say I can add to the pros of Ant+Ivy "no magic". I don't find
good words (at least not in english :-)), but I think you get the idea.

- Xavier

> Xavier Hanin wrote:
> > Thanks to your feedback I've updated the slides to integrate your
> > suggestions. I haven't tested if I'll have enough time with those
> > slides, it
> > may be a bit too long now.
> >
> > Tell me what you think would be the best to cut down if I need time.
> > give me your feedback on the changes, especially on Maven / Ivy
> > comparison,
> > I wan't to be as fair as possible, so I'll welcome any comment.
> >
> > Thanks for your time,
> >
> > - Xavier
> >
> > On 3/9/07, Xavier Hanin <> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Ivy users,
> >>
> >> As you probablu alreaday know I'll give a talk at next ApacheCon
> >> Europe :
> >>
> >>
> >> I've just started preparing the slides, and I would like to gather
> >> feedback. Obviously without the talk it's more difficult to get an
> >> opinion,
> >> but anyway, if you have time the very early draft of the slides is
> >> available
> >> here:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Any feedback would be strongly appreciated!
> >>
> >> - Xavier
> >>
> >
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