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From "Oulds, Jonathan" <jonathan.ou...@intel.com>
Subject RE: Ivy - any future or is it also going to be retired?
Date Mon, 05 Dec 2016 14:58:30 GMT
We use Ant + Ivy extensively in our build system.  I too have noticed the lack of development
within the Ivy project which is why I recently re-joined the community.

I would be happy to contribute patches and or ideas for future development if the project
is to continue.

Please bear in mind when considering the future status of Ivy that the ideas that have been
developed within this project have been adopted by others such as Gradle and Artifactory,
as such it would be a shame to see the end of such an influential project.



Jonathan Oulds
Snr. Software Engineer
McAfee


-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Matèrne (jhm) [mailto:apache@materne.de] 
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 12:47 PM
To: 'Ant Developers List' <dev@ant.apache.org>
Subject: AW: Ivy - any future or is it also going to be retired?

> If you want to push Ivy, you need integrations with IDE. 

Yes, I agree. But the problem getting developers to improve IvyDE.


> IMHO, IvyDE works well with Eclipse;

IvyDE will be available as it is. We don't delete releases as they are archived in the Apache
archive. 


> perhaps its [IvyDE] release cycle needs to be synced with Ivy release cycle (which is
roughly biannual a this point).

Nice idea - but without enough developers impossible. 


> Is there a release plan for Ivy, by the way? 

No.


> When will this <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IVY-1444> fix be released?

Marten has commented "it will be fixed in the next release."
So first step is getting the change into the code base. 2nd step is getting a release out.

I don't know the actual status of #1.
Currently there is no release planed. 


> I don't know what a -1 (which is what I would have voted) would do in reality. 

A '-1' is basically a vote 'against' the suggestion [1]. It must be explained so that we could
react on the arguments privded. Basically a -1 could be overriden by enough +1s.

If the decision requires consensus, then its called 'veto' and could not be overridden.
But only the removal of a committer or PMC member requires consesus [2].
                                                                        
[1] http://ant.apache.org/bylaws.html#Voting
[2] http://ant.apache.org/bylaws.html#Actions


> So on one hand I want that project to stay (and hope to be actively 
> developed) and on the other I don't think that's going to be happen even if it isn't
retired.

Same with us. We don't want to retire subprojects. But have to face the facts and get the
consequences.


> Second, I'm guessing the ivy (and ant) project would very much welcome extra hands. 
> So if this project is important to you, and you want a release to happen ...
> why don't you join the effort and help drive it.

Thanks, you're right. ;) 


> If right now the problem is "there is noone able to create / manage new releases" 
> (but some people are still around to watch over the code and fix 
> bugs), maybe someone can step up specifically for the job of release manager ...

That's the plan, or the intention ;)


> Like I said in my mails, I've tried [contributing]. 
> Anyway, here's some previous mails where I tried [1] [2] [3].
> [1] http://marc.info/?l=ant-dev&m=143702067424412&w=2
> [2] http://marc.info/?l=ant-dev&m=143765756710466&w=2
> [3] http://marc.info/?l=ant-dev&m=144026083515049&w=2

Maybe we were sleeping some time. But we are waking up. 
#1 was started on 2015-07-16 and a patch was merged on 2015-08-30.
#2 was started on 2015-07-23 and last response by Nicolas was that it breaks on Windows.
#3 was started on 2015-08-22 and last answer on 2015-08-30. 


> Me? I can provide patches and fixes and enhancements for whatever 
> little knowledge I gain by looking at existing code, but my experience 
> with Ivy is just limited to the past few years when I started using it as a user.

Experience comes naturally by working with and for Ivy. So creating and providing patches
further.  
With Ant I started with answering user questions on the user-list. Then providing some patches.


> there's really nothing to look forward to in terms of roadmap or releases or development.

I think the problem is that we lost most of the core developers of Ivy in a short timeframe.
So every development/planning stoped. (Just my personal point of view.) Now we are trying
to reactivate 'old', aquire 'new' committers and getting 'existing' 
(Ant)commmiters be more familiar with the Ivy codebase, so that we could do more here.
(Also my personal point of view.)



Jan 
  




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