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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:21:18 +0100
From: "Xavier Hanin" <xavier.hanin@gmail.com>
To: "Ant Developers List" <dev@ant.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Add maven2 resolver?
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On Feb 9, 2008 12:43 PM, Adrian Sandor <aditsu@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >>> Therefore the only solution was to manually build an "enterprise
> > >>> repository" from scratch.
> > >>
> > >> Well, to build a "entreprise repository", you will need some
> > >> "entreprise maintainers".
>
>
> I was talking about a private repository for me and my coworkers. It's
> called "entreprise repository" in the Ivy docs.
> But yes, a (public) Ivy rep needs maintainers, and I think it's not that
> hard. Users can submit modules and the maintainers just need to check and
> add them. A publishing procedure can be designed and enforced in order to
> make it easy for maintainers.

Yes, but this requires improving tooling, and the work required is not that
light, when you know the number of module revisions published every day.

>
>
>
> > >> And looking at the number of artifacts
> > >> available on ibiblio, for me it is a kind of magic to have Ivy
> > >> support
> > >> maven repositories. And we have to admit that maven is more popular
> > >> than Ivy, so people will still continue to publish maven artifacts,
> > >> even non maven-built projects as Lucene.
>
>
> Yes, this is a good thing in the beginning. But in the long term, this
> will
> encourage people to just continue to publish things to maven, which helps
> maven more than ivy.

If Ivy is close to 100% compatible with maven, it helps Ivy as well as
Maven. And if Ivy grows enough, then having our own repository wold make
much more sense. I simply think that it's still too early. I think we first
need to make Ivy grow with compelling features rather than trying to build
our own repo (also because I've already tried to build an Ivy repo, and know
how hard it is).

So if we speak about growing, here is what I think is important:
- make Ivy close to 100% compatible with maven, and at least never "break".
If sometimes Ivy doesn't understand one dependency, or resolve dependencies
slightly differently, I don't think it's that important if people can fix it
in their ivy.xml.
- release Ivy 2 final!
- improve out of the box experience, to make it really easy for users to
setup their build with Ivy. This is why I suggested EasyAnt recently,
because it's still one of the main reason for people to use Maven, and with
which Ivy itself can't fight.

Maven being so broken, I'd rather let it die :p
>
>
> > >> And on the contrary, we could imagine to have some ivy.xml just next
> > >> to the pom.xml on the maven repositories, so we could have a IvyRep2
> > >> with not that much effort from the developer (non necessarily ivy
> > >> ones) community.
> > >
> > > Yes, but even maintaining ivy files require a strong community if we
> > > want to have good quality metadata. That's what we tried with Ivyrep,
>
> > while Ivy was being sponsored by Jayasoft. But it was just too much
>
> > work compared to the result on investment.
>
>
> I think there are ways to reduce the amount of work. But yeah, community
> is
> important. I'm willing to help, if it matters :)

Help is always welcome! And remember that Apache is all about community, and
anybody with good will can get involved. Even if I think building a public
Ivy repo now is too early, you can still go ahead and show the opposite. I
can help with the tooling required, and I'm pretty sure the Ivy committer
team is very open to change in Ivy to support this if ever it's necessary.
So feel free to share ideas and show your motivation and what you can
achieve!


> > I was just considering adding the possibility to
> > the maven2 resolver to also try to look for an ivy.xml just next to
> > the pom.xml (I haven't looked to the technical consequences though).
> > Then the maven2 community could also be an Ivy community. So the
> > Ivyrep Adrian is looking for could be nothing more than the ibiblio one.
>
>
> Well, that doesn't solve the problem of bad org names. And it requires
> cooperation with the maven/ibiblio people (if they're ok, then it could
> work).
>
> Anyway, for now, I guess it makes sense to enhance maven2 support (with
> poms), as it will bring the most results in the short term.
> In that case, the first thing I'd request is support for source and
> javadoc
> artifacts (I understand they're not defined in poms, so Ivy should just
> construct the corresponding URLs and check whether they exist).

Sources and javadoc artifacts are supported in IvyDE, but if we make a
maven2 resolver this could be part of the features provided by this very
specific resolver.

Xavier


>
> Obviously, other users have other requests, and it's up to you to sort the
> priorities :)


>
> Regards,
> Adrian
>


-- 
Xavier Hanin - Independent Java Consultant
http://xhab.blogspot.com/
http://ant.apache.org/ivy/
http://www.xoocode.org/

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