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From Matt Benson <gudnabr...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: PropertyHelper thoughts
Date Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:49:33 GMT
Sorry for the lag... I was sort of wondering if anyone
else had anything at all to say here.  :)  Not even DD
is talking anymore so I guess it's down to you and me,
Peter, to decide where this is going:  do-ocracy and
all...

--- Peter Reilly <peter.kitt.reilly@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Matt,
> 
> I still think that we need to provide write access
> to the properties.
> 
> Writing to expressions is used a lot for example
> with JSF and EL.

Oh, that was your
<property name="deref:foo.bar" value="value for bar of
foo" />
example, right?

> 
> It may also be used to provide a "var:" prefix - to
> allow rewrittable
> properties without using the <ac:var unset="yes"
> name="me"/> work-around
> (see ant in action
> (http://www.manning.com/loughran/)),
> 

Given these usecases does it then follow that
PropertySetter extends PropertyEvaluator?  i.e. do you
agree we can call it "proper" that a PropertySetter
would know how to retrieve its own properties?  As for
consensus on the property setting extension point, I
think we stand at:

You (Peter): +1
DD: strong -0?
Me (Matt): +0

So I think we can do this unless DD clarifies his
position as being a full -1.  That's not his customary
behavior however.

-Matt

> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/26/07, Matt Benson <gudnabrsam@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- Peter Reilly <peter.kitt.reilly@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Matt,
> > > this is pretty neat.
> >
> > Thanks for the compliment, and for checking it
> out!
> > :)
> > >
> > > Just a couple of points:
> > > 1) the svn does not have the common external
> pointer
> > > defined
> >
> > Oops--I figured out how to do it but forgot that I
> had
> > to commit properties changes, should be ok now.
> >
> > > 2) how do the property helpers work with <*ant*>
> ?
> >
> > I am currently working from the perspective that
> the
> > availability of a given PropertyHelper delegate is
> > crucial enough to warrant forcing explicit or
> imported
> > invocation.  I am willing to entertain differing
> > opinions, however.  :)
> >
> > -Matt
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/26/07, Matt Benson <gudnabrsam@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi all--
> > > >   Just wanted to be sure everyone who cares
> about
> > > this
> > > > thread noticed
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=42736
> > > > and the companion antlib at
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/ant/sandbox/antlibs/props
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > br,
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > > > --- Matt Benson <gudnabrsam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Dominique Devienne <ddevienne@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 6/22/07, Matt Benson
> <gudnabrsam@yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Let me divert the topic for a
> moment--the
> > > other
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > two most important property handling
> > > extension
> > > > > > points
> > > > > > > can be expressed with a
> PropertyEvaluator
> > > > > > interface.
> > > > > > > A perfect example is Ant's built-in
> > > > > toString:refid
> > > > > > > property "syntax".  Basically that's an
> > > example
> > > > > of
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > custom PropertyEvaluator that interprets
> a
> > > > > string
> > > > > > > beginning with "toString:".  Now imagine
> a
> > > > > > > complementary custom property evaluator
> that
> > > > > > evaluates
> > > > > > > "refid:refid" to the Object reference.
> > > Overload
> > > > > > > IH.setAttribute to allow Object values.
> > > Change
> > > > > > > property replacement such that a string
> > > whose
> > > > > > entire
> > > > > > > contents are a property that evaluates
> to an
> > > > > > Object,
> > > > > > > returns the Object.  With the postulated
> > > > > > refid:refid
> > > > > > > PropertyEvaluator,
> "${refid:myclasspath}"
> > > would
> > > > > > return
> > > > > > > the Path at refid myclasspath.  If
> > > > > > RuntimeConfigurable
> > > > > > > calls the PH method that is capable of
> > > returning
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > Object, then passes that Object (or
> String)
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > overloaded IH.setAttribute(), we have
> just
> > > > > > rendered
> > > > > > > all classpathref attributes obsolete;
> > > rather,
> > > > > any
> > > > > > task
> > > > > > > can support ref'd types in attributes
> > > without
> > > > > > having
> > > > > > > to support the foo|fooref paradigm.  If
> the
> > > > > > attribute
> > > > > > > isn't settable as the returned Object,
> > > convert
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > Object to a String and pass it to the
> > > original
> > > > > > > IH.setAttribute() implementation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This use case I do care about. But I
> always
> > > felt
> > > > > > refid handling should
> > > > > > be transparent to the tasks, and handled
> > > directly
> > > > > by
> > > > > > the framework.
> > > > > > hard to retrofit on the current
> infrastructure
> > > > > > though I think. But
> > > > > > where I'm getting at is that this
> particular
> > > > > example
> > > > > > of yours, yes, I
> > > > > > agree it's a valid use case, but I don't
> think
> > > > > that
> > > > > > the way to enable
> > > > > > it ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know; this is really seeming like a
> > > > > best-of-both-worlds scenario to me.  Custom
> > > > > pluggable
> > > > > extensions with the possibility of one that
> > > allows
> > > > > nearly-automatic refid handling among other,
> > > some
> > > > > unforeseeable, specializations.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not overly fond of "special" handling
> in
> > > IH
> > > > > when
> > > > > > the attribute
> > > > > > value is "entirely" a property  deref, but
> I
> > > could
> > > > > > live with that is
> > > > > > others accept it. --DD
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My plan is to finish the changes I'm working
> on,
> > > > > along
> > > > > with a companion antlib for testing, then
> attach
> > > the
> > > > > core changes to a BZ issue so others can
> apply
> > > the
> > > > > patch and test if they like; then we'll have
> > > > > something
> > > > > more tangible to discuss.  Of course I hope
> for
> > > as
> > > > > much discourse as possible to take place in
> the
> > > > > interim.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Matt
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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