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From "Steve Loughran" <stev...@iseran.com>
Subject Re: JSR for Ant (was RE: Ant 1.9 & Task Packaging)
Date Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:31:30 GMT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Donald" <peter@apache.org>
To: "Ant Developers List" <ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 00:21
Subject: Re: JSR for Ant (was RE: Ant 1.9 & Task Packaging)


> On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 05:51, Tim Dawson wrote:

> JSRs can be useful but Ant is no where near close enough to being ready
for
> that. If it had a more mature featureset then maybe ... however it is
> difficult to see the need of having multiple containers. And without the
need
> for multiple containes, making it a JSR would only be a politicial move.
Some
> other JSRs have still gone this path but that is mainly so that the
vendors
> who supply the product/implementation can say they "conform to a
standard".
> It is a nice way of bamboozalling customers but I don't think ant needs to
do
> that. Surely we can stand on technical merits alone.
>
> JSRs can be good or bad things to go into. It all comes down to the skill
of
> the spec lead. One JSR I was involved with was meant to be a simple 2 week
> job but the spec lead botched it and it is for all intents and purposes
dead
> a year ago. Another JSR I am still involved with has a brilliant spec lead
> and the EG members are way mort smarter than I. I am surprised to see the
> rapid progression made even when different EG members seem to be aiming
for
> completely different things.

Agreed. it is all so political. I have long been tempted to propose one to
add better support for laptops; network state, power monitoring etc, but you
end up with OS and platform politics so fast that it isnt worth the effort.


> Anyhow even if a JSR could be established and pushed through the JCP, Im
not
> sure there would be any one who has the manner and skill to make a spec
lead.
> Also the requirements are relativly high - especially if no one is getting
> paid to do the mind numbing edditing and TCK generation and so forth.
>
> > One of the stated goals of Ant2 is to be useful in multiple contexts,
e.g.
> > command line, IDE, autobuild tools, etc. A JSR process would get direct
> > input from 3rd party IDE vendors to ensure that Ant is adopted across
those
> > tools.
>
> I have been contacted off list by quite a few different vendors. Even some
> that do not make tools but wanted to embed ant into other environments. I
am
> sure that many of these vendors would be very very happy to give you their
> comments if you were to provide them with documents describing proposals
for
> features pertinent to them - namely the embeddor interface and the
TaskInfo
> interace.

I think active involvement with the IDE developers incorporating ant into
their tools: jedit, eclipse, netbeans, IDEA and radpak spring to mind, would
help them, us and end users. Doesnt have to be a JSR though; this mailing
list should suffice. We just start by collecting all their experiences on
ant integration so far and how they think it could be done better.

Maybe we should have a special session on it at AntOne :)


-steve


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