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From "Tim Dawson" <tdawso...@yahoo.com>
Subject RE: JSR for Ant (was RE: Ant 1.9 & Task Packaging)
Date Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:48:45 GMT
> I think active involvement with the IDE developers
> incorporating ant into
> their tools: jedit, eclipse, netbeans, IDEA and radpak spring
> to mind, would
> help them, us and end users. Doesnt have to be a JSR though;
> this mailing
> list should suffice. We just start by collecting all their
> experiences on
> ant integration so far and how they think it could be done better.

Fair enough. I hadn't thought about the politics involved - my only JSR
experience while moving a little slowly, has been quite smooth in that
regard.

But when we're ready, I think a JSR "rubber stamp" would be good for the
vendors, at least, as a selling point, but I agree if they want that they
can invest the time. :-)

> Maybe we should have a special session on it at AntOne :)

Actually, this would be a good topic for my Ant2 BOF at JavaOne, if enough
of those vendors show up. I'll make sure to add it to the list of proposed
topics for discussion.

Tim


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Loughran [mailto:steve_l@iseran.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 12:32 PM
> To: Ant Developers List
> Subject: Re: JSR for Ant (was RE: Ant 1.9 & Task Packaging)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Donald" <peter@apache.org>
> To: "Ant Developers List" <ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 00:21
> Subject: Re: JSR for Ant (was RE: Ant 1.9 & Task Packaging)
>
>
> > On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 05:51, Tim Dawson wrote:
>
> > JSRs can be useful but Ant is no where near close enough to
> being ready
> for
> > that. If it had a more mature featureset then maybe ...
> however it is
> > difficult to see the need of having multiple containers.
> And without the
> need
> > for multiple containes, making it a JSR would only be a
> politicial move.
> Some
> > other JSRs have still gone this path but that is mainly so that the
> vendors
> > who supply the product/implementation can say they "conform to a
> standard".
> > It is a nice way of bamboozalling customers but I don't
> think ant needs to
> do
> > that. Surely we can stand on technical merits alone.
> >
> > JSRs can be good or bad things to go into. It all comes
> down to the skill
> of
> > the spec lead. One JSR I was involved with was meant to be
> a simple 2 week
> > job but the spec lead botched it and it is for all intents
> and purposes
> dead
> > a year ago. Another JSR I am still involved with has a
> brilliant spec lead
> > and the EG members are way mort smarter than I. I am
> surprised to see the
> > rapid progression made even when different EG members seem
> to be aiming
> for
> > completely different things.
>
> Agreed. it is all so political. I have long been tempted to
> propose one to
> add better support for laptops; network state, power
> monitoring etc, but you
> end up with OS and platform politics so fast that it isnt
> worth the effort.
>
>
> > Anyhow even if a JSR could be established and pushed
> through the JCP, Im
> not
> > sure there would be any one who has the manner and skill to
> make a spec
> lead.
> > Also the requirements are relativly high - especially if no
> one is getting
> > paid to do the mind numbing edditing and TCK generation and
> so forth.
> >
> > > One of the stated goals of Ant2 is to be useful in
> multiple contexts,
> e.g.
> > > command line, IDE, autobuild tools, etc. A JSR process
> would get direct
> > > input from 3rd party IDE vendors to ensure that Ant is
> adopted across
> those
> > > tools.
> >
> > I have been contacted off list by quite a few different
> vendors. Even some
> > that do not make tools but wanted to embed ant into other
> environments. I
> am
> > sure that many of these vendors would be very very happy to
> give you their
> > comments if you were to provide them with documents
> describing proposals
> for
> > features pertinent to them - namely the embeddor interface and the
> TaskInfo
> > interace.
>
> I think active involvement with the IDE developers
> incorporating ant into
> their tools: jedit, eclipse, netbeans, IDEA and radpak spring
> to mind, would
> help them, us and end users. Doesnt have to be a JSR though;
> this mailing
> list should suffice. We just start by collecting all their
> experiences on
> ant integration so far and how they think it could be done better.
>
> Maybe we should have a special session on it at AntOne :)
>
>
> -steve
>
>
> --
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