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From Jose Alberto Fernandez <j_a_fernan...@yahoo.com>
Subject RE: [PATCH] ejb-jar/jonas element again
Date Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:35:30 GMT
I think you are misunderstanding the aim of what we
are talking about, see my comments below.

 --- Stephane Bailliez <sbailliez@imediation.com>
wrote: 
> 
> I don't think it is possible *at all*.
> 
> The common interface already exists even though it
> is Microsoft only, it is
> called SCC.
> It is not widely supported by SCM vendors because it
> fails to address
> specific issues of each software of course and each
> software nearly as its
> own concept, but some vendors provide a scc dll so
> that it can integrates in
> some IDEs.
> 

We are not talking about asking people to implement
some completelly generic API. What we are saying is
that ANT should provide on its generic tasks (and we
do not have a generic VCS task at the moment) the way
for vendors to plug-in. Our generic tasks will provide
an standarized set of functions and will also provide
the means for accessing particular features of a
particular vendor product.

> Now assuming you want to do this.
> 
> Just keep in mind that it means you must do the same
> for every tool out
> there, like for example - the EJB task for each app.
> server out there.
> - the java compiler
> - the C/C++ compiler
> 
> Since it is not even standardized, I fail to see how
> you will be able to
> standardize every piece of software out there which
> you don't even know
> deeply and where you have absolutely zero influence.
> It is just like asking
> for standard parameters in all C/C++ compilers.
> 

First, we already are doing this things. <javac> and
<ejb-jar> already support several products and at
least <javac> has a plug-in system defined. The only
problem here is that everytime you want to add a new
compiler you not only have to write the plug-in but
you also need to change <javac> so that it recognize
it and loads the new plug-in. What I would like is for
this linking to be done dynamically in a way simillar
as how we do with <tasks> today.

We have the same issue with things like <condition>s,
and the proposed solution for ANT2 is to be able to
express on the <antlib> descriptors not only tasks and
datatypes but also conditions, and several others.
I would like to see compilers, ejbdeployers,
versioncontrollers, etc. But for that to succeed we
need to build (or reinforce) plugability within such
tools. For ANT1, we could work the plugability and
maybe just have <conddef>, <versiondef>, <javadef> and
so on, following the pattern of <taskdef> and
<typedef>.

> 
> Now consider that this is just a very simple API,
> that is intended mostly
> for IDE use and that is very much different from
> what you would be able to
> do via Ant which is more a deployment thing than a
> bare
> checkin/checkout/move that you do 99% of the time in
> an IDE.
> 

Our <ejb-jar> task already provides ways to define all
kinds of things specific to a particular deployer, but
that means that buildfiles become product specific (no
big deal). I for example would like to be able to
write buldfiles that can be used with multiple
products something like:

<ejb-jar .....>
  .....
  <jboss ... if="use.jboss" />
  <jonas .... if="use.jonas" />
</ejb-jar>

You get the idea. I know is not that simple, with
conflicts ans so on, but it would be fantastic for
shipping generic EJB Apps that can run in any
appServer.

OK, more food for thought...

Jose Alberto



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