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Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 08:31:06 +1000
To: ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org
From: Peter Donald <donaldp@apache.org>
Subject: Re: Configure->Template->Build
Cc: ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org
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At 11:53 AM 6/7/01 -0700, Diane Holt wrote:
>--- Peter Donald <donaldp@apache.org> wrote:
>> Iteration and selection should really only be used in
>> rule/template/generic targets and thus only used by experienced people.
>> Including these features in the core would however mean novices would
>> use them ... probably in bad ways ;) Worse we would have to support and
>> explain to them, "no don't use if ask there, use multiple targes with if
>> attribute, don't use repetition here, explicitly list the data etc".
>
>I have to disagree with this. I don't think what functionality Ant offers
>should be determined by whether it might be used "in bad ways".  I've
>cleaned up plenty of cruddy code -- C, shell-scripts (all the variants),
>make (all the variants), jam, you name it -- and never once did it make me
>think, "Yuck! -- 'X' must really be a crappy tool, it's being used so
>badly."  I just think, "Man, whoever wrote this sure didn't know what the
>hell they were doing."

possibly. I have had the opposite experience. One reason I use java is
because I got fed up with crappy code produced by C++ developers (Same with
python vs perl). Sure - these languages when used well, are easy to read,
easy-ish to use etc. However it is rare that people have the skill to do
this properly.

>> By separating repetition and selection into another layer (ie
>> templating), it saves us mountains of hassle and ensures that people
>> using it will have a clue (or at least to some degree).
>
>I just don't see that -- if it's being offered, whether inside or out,
>it's still connected, officially, to Ant, and you're right back where you
>say you don't want to have to be (supporting and documenting it).  

true - but it is supporting a more advanced build developer which is
infinitly easier. That said I always planned to add an if task to ant
(though host it elsewhere), so ...


Cheers,

Pete

*-----------------------------------------------------*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."                   |
|              - John Kenneth Galbraith               |
*-----------------------------------------------------*