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From Peter Donald <dona...@apache.org>
Subject RE: Configure->Template->Build
Date Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:17:37 GMT
At 01:22 PM 6/6/01 +0100, Jose Alberto Fernandez wrote:
>> From: Peter Donald [mailto:donaldp@apache.org]
>>
>> At 09:59 AM 6/6/01 +0200, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>> >>>The problem I have with this approach is, that whenever I ask for
>> >>>real world examples of large scale projects I don't get any
>> >>>responses.  Or if I get responses and manage to solve the problems
>> >>>without templates (the static kind) they get declared bad examples
>> >>>afterwards.
>>
>> BTW it wasn't me who coined the term "dynamic" templates.
>>
>
>My problem is with applying the term to <projectref> not with the existance
>of it.

well it was me who applied to that use case.
>> (B). T1 does not have any dependencies. You create a dummy
>> target in in P1
>> that depends on T1, T2 if necessary and T3. This would rely on serial
>> processing of dependencies.
>>
>
>(C) Use "if" attribute on the predefined target. Just covering all possible
>solutions.

*sigh*

>What is this extra maintenance work? Aren't tasks suppose to work as
>adverticed? If I publish develop a task and say it does nothing when no
>input is given, then it should keep on doing that on future revisions, the
>same why it is suppose to keep on doing whatever it is that is suppose to
>do.

pfft. and if you don't what then?

>Before you get into what we can do or not, can you tell me what you mean by
>nested Fs? Fs are tasks, so are you talking about some new nested task
>concept or something?

Fs are features not tasks. Commonly Fs could be tasks but in many cases
could be a set of tasks. Some Fs depend on existence of other Fs.

>
>>
>> The other solution offered is what I have been pushing.
>> Remembering that
>> the situations that mandate templates will generally also mandate the
>> presence of configuration/build engineers. While ant in it's
>> current form
>> is suitable for small and simple projects, it doesn't scale
>> well to these
>> sorts of situations.
>>
>> Ideally when you have access to build engineer, you may
>> aswell make use of
>> them. In the ideal scenario the "build file" will be a set of
>> properties
>> that are processed by "rules"/"templates" to generate instance. I have
>> shown you my GNUMake file that facilitates this and you would
>> have to agree
>> that it is simpler to work with. In case you forgot, here is
>> snippet from
>> input file again.
>
>This is what I call embeded job security ;-)
>We can't make the build tools too easy to use, those programmer may start
>writing their own build files.

And you consider this a good thing? Projects that have configuration
managers have them more than just maintain build files but to also maintain
build process. Personally when a resource is available I want to use it,
you seem 
>As I told you in the past, you are just trying to impose on ANT those
>patterns developed for MAKE. For example:
>
>	$(wildcard $(SRCDIR)/dbg/*.cpp )
>
>when were you goint to come and ask for $function-call notation for ANT so
>you can give input lists explicitly? 

Don't be silly. Nothing in that snippet couldn't be done (or isn't already
done) with ant datatypes.

>I was wondering how were you planning to pass all
>the different filesets and such for your expanded templates/configuration.

same way it is done already?

>Well, OK I give you the benefit of the doubt, you were planning to implement
>this functionality in your JavaScript/JPYTHON Configuration stage. ;-)

unlikely.

>Althogh you can achieve this with the <configure> task we have already
>mentioned and maybe even with the <style> or <anakia> tasks that exists
>today. 

you can also write webservers with assembly.

>I still think this is just advocating for having dialects in ANT,
>each project its own. No common IDE is possible because there is no common
>language for buildfiles.

gee - the problem with that is?

>How do you debug a builfile in this macro language? 

how many times do I have to answer the same question. The answer is the
same today as it was yesterday.

>You do not even know what is this suppose to expand to until you execute. 
>Or learn XSLT as to understand the templates.

gee - don't let facts get in the way of you. You go girl.



Cheers,

Pete

*-----------------------------------------------------*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."                   |
|              - John Kenneth Galbraith               |
*-----------------------------------------------------*


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