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From James Duncan Davidson <>
Subject Re: Jakarta PMC Meeting Agenda / Info
Date Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:00:55 GMT
On 1/14/01 6:04 AM, "Conor MacNeill" <> wrote:

> I thought ant was already a top-level project! I can only assume that this
> means moving ant out of Jakarta. Is that right? What is special about ant?

The Jakarta Project encompasses several things. It was created to serve as a
home for Tomcat and a place for many of the projects to
land. Ant isn't really part of the raison d'etre of Jakarta, and never was.
Now that it's received some degree of success, it's time for it to breathe
on its own and not under the Jakarta project where it can be forgotten.

There's a couple of alternatives to this:

    1) Ant could become a top level Apache project -- on par with
       Jakarta, httpd, apr, xml, and others. Or, somewhat related
       could form the seed for a new project that dealt with
       software dev tools (like the tinderbox stuff that Sam has
       worked on).

    2) Ant could become a project of some other organization that
       is working on software development tools. The org that
       springs to mind is

> What are the implications of this change? In other words, if ant is a
> separate top-level project, how will it operate differently from the way it
> works (or doesn't work) today.

It won't be buried under a project that is focused mainly on
Servlets/JSPs/Web things.

>>  *) Formalization of a subproject responsibility hierarchy. The PMC, and
>>     its chairman, are responsible for the day to day operations of the
>>     subprojects contained by the Jakarta Project.
> What exactly is encompassed by "day to day operations"? Does it include
> technical decisions and directions? As each Jakarta project has a group of
> committers, for whom there is already a decision making framework, could
> not this group form the leaf of the "responsibility hierarchy" If this is
> not the case, then what is the role of the committers in decision making?

Day to day operations is pretty much defined as just that. Read the ASF by
laws for an idea. Process, procedure, direction, goals, etc.

When all of the committers are in agreement, it's easy to say that there
isn't a need for a "leader". However, when you have things like the Tomcat
3.x --> 4.x happenstances where not everybody is willing to go with the
decisions that have been made, then you really need a person with whom the
"buck stops".

> I'm not sure what "responsible to the PMC chairman" involves?

That means that the person would be in charge subject to the PMC chairman's
oversight. Just as the PMC chairman is responsible for the Jakarta Project
subject to the ASF boards oversight.

> I guess there is no need to really discuss any or all these points on the
> ant-dev list. I'm just raising the questions that came into my mind, since
> I can't be there. Will there be any minutes provided afterwards?

Some lucky person will take minutes. I will be publishing those along with
the actions and action items from the meeting within a few days of the


James Duncan Davidson                              
                                                                  !try; do()

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