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From Peter Donald <>
Subject RE: Updated design docs
Date Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:16:03 GMT
At 01:08  14/1/01 -0500, James Cook wrote:
>> Look. I'm not into heavyweight processes. I really don't think that doing
>> design docs and such is really going to get us any closer to having a good
>> piece of code.
>I think that others will disagree, I know I do.

me too ;) 
If this is the case does anyone object to me developing a FSD like Jon
suggested ?

>It seemed that Peter was championing AntFarm and Connor felt that Ant 1.2
>needed just a little tweaking to shake it up.

I was championing the best bits of any project ;) In reality I probably am
biased towards my own proposal but so far AntFarm has been the best
presented best idea.

>I think that the negative email you receive on this subject is not aimed at
>your ideas, but rather the autocratic manner in which you presume to deliver

both. I think many of his ideas sucked thou most of the irksome ones have
been modified ;)

>I haven't read *any* discussion about what Ant will become, seriously. Is
>there another forum? Perhaps there should be.

thats because everyones waiting for results of the meeting tomorrow ;)

>Proposal: Create a sepearate mail list "ant-design" to discuss the future of
>Ant 2.0.

naah. I know there is developers on ant-dev who would probably not
participate if we moved list so it would be better to keep it on one list
where they are more likely to contribute ;)

Thou I have been thinking it may be nice to have a contrib list where extra
tasks are discussed and critiqued thou that may be just overhead ;)

>For those that have, they haven't commented on it in a positive or negative

Well my main concern with your proposal that blocks me from supporting it
is how you handle

<echo message="Interpret ${this} at runtime" />

The easiest way that has been suggested is via the use of proxies. The
"everything is a task" approach gets exceeding complex and looses all it's
intrinsic simplicity if proxies are used (see Ant1.x for an example). Thus
I can't see any benefit unless you can think of a way other than proxies
that the above can be done.



| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."                   |
|              - John Kenneth Galbraith               |

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