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Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 14:50:41 +0100
From: marco struck <m.struck@nexolution.de>
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To: ant-user@jakarta.apache.org, ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: Fw: Problem using script task
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Jason,

I absolutely agree with you. ANT is very nice to handle classes, jars, zips, cvs
and so on.
But that was just the first step. People have found with ANT an easy way to
handle their project structures.

The first impression of ANT - also to me - is: ANT is the solution for all our
problems.
But the second one: We need more control (as Jason described).

After some weeks of discussion about the introduction of ANT in my company,
we came to the issue, that we have to write own tasks to handle the shortcomings
of ANT
......but I think, that could not be the right way.

A task should be a kind of component which encapsulate complex functionality
and should be uses as kind of black box in build files.

I think: Scripting should be a core feature of ANT2.

Jason Rosenberg wrote:

> What I see as really great about Ant is that it provides
> a very clean, platform-independent framework for building
> platform-independent software.
>
> In addition to the obvious platform independent advantages
> of working with java type stuff, it also hides the details of
> dealing with file-system stuff, which is usually very platform
> specific.  Issues such as checking relative time-stamps,
> and converting '\' to '/', etc.
>
> Also, it has a very clean target/dependency/task description
> frame work, which is nicely extensible and customizable.
>
> But it has some fundamental short-comings.  I am formulating
> a more formal argument on this, which I will post later.
>
> Some key points:
>
>     Ant is already a programming language; it gets interpreted
>     directly by the virtual machine that is 'org.apache.tools.ant.Main.main'.
>
>     It already includes fundamental programming constructs, such
>     as variable declarations (e.g. <property>), conditional execution
>     (e.g. <depends>,<if>,<unless>) and sub-routine calls (e.g.
>     <antcall>,<ant>,<exec>).
>
>     Those fundamental programming constructs have fundamental
>     shortcomings, which severly limit one's ability to construct
>     simple scripts which can be applied as a library of parameterized
>     templates for doing a long list of similar tasks.
>
>     There are some simple extensions to Ant which would rescue
>     these short-comings.
>
>     The <script> task is at best a hack.  It dangerously exposes the
>     externals of Ant (can access non-standard, non-user-mode
>     methods, etc.).  Its use requires an internal knowledge of Ant.   It
>     requires the installation and independent maintenance and
>     monitoring of a bunch of other software components (bsf, rhino).
>
>     Ant itself IS A SCRIPTING LANGUAGE already.  Object-oriented
>     zealotry can only take one so far.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Corbin" <dcorbin@machturtle.com>
> To: <ant-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 9:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Problem using script task
>
> > Jason Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> > > So, probably, once I get to a point where I've got my preliminary
> > > build installation working, I'll make an effort to start writing
> > > some useful flow control tasks.  I assume that wouldn't be
> > > too difficult.
> > >
> > > Or, are there philosophical objections to doing so.  Simple
> > > things like loops and conditionals, etc.
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> >
> > I'm hardly and authority, but...
> >
> > What is that you want to do that you can't do with ant.  Please give an
> > explicit example.  It is my initial reaction that if you're going to
> > turn ant into another programming/scripting language, that is the wrong
> > path.
> >
> > --
> > David Corbin
> > Mach Turtle Technologies, Inc.
> > http://www.machturtle.com
> > dcorbin@machturtle.com

--
mit freundlichen gr��en / best regards
marco struck
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