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From "Chris Todd" <>
Subject RE: Taskdef for XMLC (
Date Sun, 10 Dec 2000 17:39:44 GMT
Perhaps a simple reconciliation of Diane's and Jon's points would be to have
a page on the Ant website that could list optional tasks that have been
written, along with hyperlinks to the websites where those tasks can be
obtained.  Then, when anyone writes a new optional Ant task that they think
other folks might find useful, they can simply notify the list of the
availability of this task, and perhaps even offer a patch to the "Optional
Tasks" webpage, making it as simple as possible for the Ant developers to
maintain that page.

This seems liek a reasonable compromise that places the burden of
maintaining individual optional tasks off the Ant developers' shoulders,
while making the availability of such tasks as widely known as possible.

Sincerest regards,
Chris Todd
Software Engineer
Alabanza Corporation

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Diane Holt []
>Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 12:32 PM
>Subject: Re: Taskdef for XMLC (
>The problem I have with Jon's recommended approach is that it doesn't let
>me know there is already an Ant task available for something. For example,
>if I were thinking "Gee, it'd be really nice to have an Ant task to deal
>with Perforce stuff", I wouldn't look over on the Perforce web-site for an
>Ant task for it -- I would look on the Ant web-site. And if I didn't find
>anything, I'd think, "Okay, guess no one's done that yet -- I'll have to
>write something myself." Same for XMLC, etc.
>I like the idea of people having a central place they can contribute the
>tasks they've written. Maybe having a jakarta-ant-contrib would be a
>reasonable thing to do -- a place where people can contribute the work
>they've done, where they don't have to pass it through the Ant committers
>for approval and submission -- with the understanding that "contrib" is
>unsupported by "ant-dev" (maybe have an "ant-contrib" list). If the Ant
>powers-that-be just really don't want to have to deal with even having it
>under the Ant CVS site, maybe someone could set up an alternate site, and
>the Ant site could simply have a pointer to that.
>Personally, I'd love to at least have a chance to see any tasks that have
>been written for Ant that anyone wants to put out there -- including your
>"tons of tasks", Jon.
>--- Jon Stevens <> wrote:
>> on 12/9/2000 5:52 PM, "Simeon H.K. Fitch" <> wrote:
>> > Jon,
>> >
>> > I think that if you are going to -1 a task for an external tool, then
>> > you need to back it up with a recommendation for some metric that we
>> can
>> > objectively use for determining inclusion/exclusion in Ant. Based on
>> > your statement above, one could speculate that you would lobby to
>> remove
>> > all optional tasks,
>> +1 for not including optional tool tasks that don't serve any real
>> purpose
>> for Ant directly and would in reality be better bundled with the
>> original
>> product that it serves.
>> The rest of the tasks that don't fall into that category above should go
>> into a jakarta-ant-optional CVS repo (like the Perforce task). In other
>> words put things in their proper place.
>> > and possibly even some things like support for
>> > jikes, only because they provide support for tools that are developed
>> > outside of Sun or Jakarta.
>> Nope. See above clause.
>> > I can't believe that this is really the case
>> > with you. Therefore, I think you owe it to the submitter--doubly so
>> > since he is new to the group--the courtesy of a more substantiated
>> > argument against accepting his submission. Personally, I would love to
>> > have an XMLC task in Ant as I use Enhydra on one of my projects, and
>> > enhydra has a non-trivial user base. I certainly don't see it as any
>> > less worthy than, say, the ejb tasks, or the perforce support.
>> I'm not saying that the task isn't useful, I'm saying that the task
>> should
>> be included with Enhydra, not with Ant.
>> > Comments like yours above do very little to serve the longer term
>> > interests of the group, and only succeed in driving off potentially
>> > highly effective contributors.
>> I don't get it, what is wrong with including the task with Enhydra? That
>> doesn't drive anyone away, it tells them the right location for where
>> their
>> code should really live. Maybe that person will become more of an
>> Enhydra
>> contributor.
>> One issue that you have paid absolutely no attention to is the fact that
>> the
>> people contributing these tasks are not necessarily going to be the same
>> people who are going to have to support the tasks.
>> Given that I have been around these ASF projects nearly the longest of
>> anyone here, I have seen literally hundreds of people come and go and
>> have
>> also been stuck with supporting code that people have contributed and
>> then
>> disappeared on. Ex: <>
>> I also feel that we will be forced to field questions on the Ant
>> user/dev
>> lists for support of these optional tasks. That isn't cool with me
>> either
>> since it takes away Ant's resources.
>> I have a ton of Ant tasks that could be included with Ant. I don't
>> include
>> them because I don't feel they are necessary for the core of Ant. I put
>> my
>> tasks where they belong...with the projects that they work with.
>> thanks,
>> -jon
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