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From Josh Lucas <j...@stonecottage.com>
Subject Re: Fw: Problem using script task
Date Thu, 28 Dec 2000 16:20:57 GMT
The question of adding scripting capability into 'core' Ant is something
which has been discussed frequently.  I would definitely check the
archives for the pros/cons to the issue.

Personally, I don't think scripting belongs in Ant.  I think what's
needed is some sort of configure-like app/script/process which will
build the necessary xml files for the make;make install.  This process
should wrap Ant's functionality since there is much to use there.


josh 

marco struck wrote:
> 
> Jason,
> 
> I absolutely agree with you. ANT is very nice to handle classes, jars, zips, cvs
> and so on.
> But that was just the first step. People have found with ANT an easy way to
> handle their project structures.
> 
> The first impression of ANT - also to me - is: ANT is the solution for all our
> problems.
> But the second one: We need more control (as Jason described).
> 
> After some weeks of discussion about the introduction of ANT in my company,
> we came to the issue, that we have to write own tasks to handle the shortcomings
> of ANT
> ......but I think, that could not be the right way.
> 
> A task should be a kind of component which encapsulate complex functionality
> and should be uses as kind of black box in build files.
> 
> I think: Scripting should be a core feature of ANT2.
> 
> Jason Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> > What I see as really great about Ant is that it provides
> > a very clean, platform-independent framework for building
> > platform-independent software.
> >
> > In addition to the obvious platform independent advantages
> > of working with java type stuff, it also hides the details of
> > dealing with file-system stuff, which is usually very platform
> > specific.  Issues such as checking relative time-stamps,
> > and converting '\' to '/', etc.
> >
> > Also, it has a very clean target/dependency/task description
> > frame work, which is nicely extensible and customizable.
> >
> > But it has some fundamental short-comings.  I am formulating
> > a more formal argument on this, which I will post later.
> >
> > Some key points:
> >
> >     Ant is already a programming language; it gets interpreted
> >     directly by the virtual machine that is 'org.apache.tools.ant.Main.main'.
> >
> >     It already includes fundamental programming constructs, such
> >     as variable declarations (e.g. <property>), conditional execution
> >     (e.g. <depends>,<if>,<unless>) and sub-routine calls (e.g.
> >     <antcall>,<ant>,<exec>).
> >
> >     Those fundamental programming constructs have fundamental
> >     shortcomings, which severly limit one's ability to construct
> >     simple scripts which can be applied as a library of parameterized
> >     templates for doing a long list of similar tasks.
> >
> >     There are some simple extensions to Ant which would rescue
> >     these short-comings.
> >
> >     The <script> task is at best a hack.  It dangerously exposes the
> >     externals of Ant (can access non-standard, non-user-mode
> >     methods, etc.).  Its use requires an internal knowledge of Ant.   It
> >     requires the installation and independent maintenance and
> >     monitoring of a bunch of other software components (bsf, rhino).
> >
> >     Ant itself IS A SCRIPTING LANGUAGE already.  Object-oriented
> >     zealotry can only take one so far.
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Corbin" <dcorbin@machturtle.com>
> > To: <ant-user@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 9:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fw: Problem using script task
> >
> > > Jason Rosenberg wrote:
> > >
> > > > So, probably, once I get to a point where I've got my preliminary
> > > > build installation working, I'll make an effort to start writing
> > > > some useful flow control tasks.  I assume that wouldn't be
> > > > too difficult.
> > > >
> > > > Or, are there philosophical objections to doing so.  Simple
> > > > things like loops and conditionals, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Jason
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm hardly and authority, but...
> > >
> > > What is that you want to do that you can't do with ant.  Please give an
> > > explicit example.  It is my initial reaction that if you're going to
> > > turn ant into another programming/scripting language, that is the wrong
> > > path.
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Corbin
> > > Mach Turtle Technologies, Inc.
> > > http://www.machturtle.com
> > > dcorbin@machturtle.com
> 
> --
> mit freundlichen grüßen / best regards
> marco struck
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