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From Peter Donald <>
Subject RE: A Users Experience
Date Tue, 05 Dec 2000 02:30:12 GMT
At 01:20  5/12/00 +1100, Conor MacNeill wrote:
>> From: Peter Donald []
>> Sent: Tuesday, 5 December 2000 12:41
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: A Users Experience
>> It is not pretty if you are on win32 but hopefully that will be fixed in a
>> days. Basically all I do is drop xerces.jar, regexp.jar into lib directory
>> as well as any other things I need during build (junit/stylebook/other).
>> Then I hack the build scripts to hardwire a heap of junk. The scripts make
>> too many assumptions that are correct for my build environment (ie win98
>> with no CLASSPATH set) so I have modded versions sitting about.
>What assumptions?

That you set CLASSPATH and haven't set ANT_HOME to incompatable dir nor
JAVA_HOME to different JVMs. As I run a lot of different things from one
shell environment (by virtue of Emacs) this is not always appropriate. I
remember that at one stage it also used NT specific commands but I don't
know if it still does as I haven't updated it for ages ;)

>> give me a little time ;)
>> It is perfectly doable in *nix but the problem is that win32 scripting
>> leaves a little to be desired. It doesn't even have a basic command like
>> "dirname" ! arg. There are two basic solutions I have come to see. We can
>> bootstrap using an old version of ant or we can write native code
>> (yuck!).
>> I remember a while back bootstrapping from an old ant was -1'ed
>> but is that
>> still considered a bad thing? What it would involve doing is the
>> following.
>> Changing destination of jars/scripts/whatever to another directory
>> ie
>> dist/bin/*
>> dist/lib/ant.jar
>> It would also simplify build process and allow inclusion/exclusion of
>> libraries  so you could magically include correct versions of
>> junit/whatever.
>> Would anyone hate this?
>Yes. -1. If you need ant to build ant, then it is not a bootstrap. 

err ..... yes it is. It is not uncommon for this to occur .. actually in
many areas it is considered a sign of maturity. Pick up any book on
kernels/compilers/programming languages and you will see that being able to
to build oneself is a sign of maturity.

>> I know it involves another jar in CVS but this
>> shouldn't be an issue as it will never be seen outside the ant build
>> process and thus will not effect any other thing using ant or being
>> developed with ant.
>Will you be adding bsf.jar, xalan.jar, regexp.jar, jakarata-oro.jar,
>netcomponents.jar, etc, etc.
>Hey, soon you'll only need to download/checkout ant as it will include every
>other open source tool around too.

Are they part of the build process .. ie do you need them to build ant for
basic facilities? Nope so ...



| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."                   |
|              - John Kenneth Galbraith               |

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