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From Peter Donald <dona...@apache.org>
Subject RE: A Users Experience
Date Tue, 05 Dec 2000 02:30:12 GMT
At 01:20  5/12/00 +1100, Conor MacNeill wrote:
>> From: Peter Donald [mailto:donaldp@apache.org]
>> Sent: Tuesday, 5 December 2000 12:41
>> To: ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: A Users Experience
>>
>> It is not pretty if you are on win32 but hopefully that will be fixed in a
>> days. Basically all I do is drop xerces.jar, regexp.jar into lib directory
>> as well as any other things I need during build (junit/stylebook/other).
>> Then I hack the build scripts to hardwire a heap of junk. The scripts make
>> too many assumptions that are correct for my build environment (ie win98
>> with no CLASSPATH set) so I have modded versions sitting about.
>
>What assumptions?

That you set CLASSPATH and haven't set ANT_HOME to incompatable dir nor
JAVA_HOME to different JVMs. As I run a lot of different things from one
shell environment (by virtue of Emacs) this is not always appropriate. I
remember that at one stage it also used NT specific commands but I don't
know if it still does as I haven't updated it for ages ;)

>> give me a little time ;)
>> It is perfectly doable in *nix but the problem is that win32 scripting
>> leaves a little to be desired. It doesn't even have a basic command like
>> "dirname" ! arg. There are two basic solutions I have come to see. We can
>> bootstrap using an old version of ant or we can write native code
>> (yuck!).
>>
>> I remember a while back bootstrapping from an old ant was -1'ed
>> but is that
>> still considered a bad thing? What it would involve doing is the
>> following.
>> Changing destination of jars/scripts/whatever to another directory
>>
>> ie
>> dist/bin/*
>> dist/lib/ant.jar
>>
>> It would also simplify build process and allow inclusion/exclusion of
>> libraries  so you could magically include correct versions of
>> junit/whatever.
>>
>> Would anyone hate this?
>
>Yes. -1. If you need ant to build ant, then it is not a bootstrap. 

err ..... yes it is. It is not uncommon for this to occur .. actually in
many areas it is considered a sign of maturity. Pick up any book on
kernels/compilers/programming languages and you will see that being able to
to build oneself is a sign of maturity.

>> I know it involves another jar in CVS but this
>> shouldn't be an issue as it will never be seen outside the ant build
>> process and thus will not effect any other thing using ant or being
>> developed with ant.
>
>Will you be adding bsf.jar, xalan.jar, regexp.jar, jakarata-oro.jar,
>netcomponents.jar, etc, etc.
>
>Hey, soon you'll only need to download/checkout ant as it will include every
>other open source tool around too.

hmmmm.
Are they part of the build process .. ie do you need them to build ant for
basic facilities? Nope so ...

Cheers,

Pete

*-----------------------------------------------------*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof."                   |
|              - John Kenneth Galbraith               |
*-----------------------------------------------------*


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