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[119.74.126.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e24sm8938971pfi.153.2019.02.24.02.00.17 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 24 Feb 2019 02:00:17 -0800 (PST) From: Deng Xiaodong Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\)) Subject: Re: Voting on AIPs - what's our process? Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 18:00:15 +0800 References: <0883EB8A-3396-40D4-8B0F-19B8DF5F30B3@apache.org> <0E918182-CDF1-4BDB-9553-5E8A36F14BFD@apache.org> To: dev@airflow.apache.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <225CD946-340C-467A-9897-59C784FE26EA@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) Great discussions! Two minor points from me: - For the workflow Ash summarised: may I remind that we may want to = decide how long the vote on an AIP should be open as well (3, 5,or 7 = days?). This can be decided later when the workflow is formalised. - For the process description Fokko proposed: how shall we decide if a = change is =A1=B0fundamental=A1=B1 or not? Like Fokko mentioned, one of = Kafka=A1=AFs criteria is whether the change proposal is changing a = public method. But this should be a very minor concern as the committers = can decide if AIP is required in a flexible way later. XD > On 24 Feb 2019, at 5:30 PM, Kevin Yang wrote: >=20 > +1 for having AIPs backed by PRs. >=20 > About having multiple PR for an AIP. I feels like it might cause = overturn > on an accepted AIP. Say idea in AIP and phase 1 PR all look good but = in > phase 2 we encountered blockers and have to employ creative solutions = that > is against the AIP. I think if an AIP is large enough so PRs must be > splitted into phases, we might want to just split the AIP? Again use = the > example of AIP-12. We have a fairly large PR > but it is far way from > covering what's being proposed in the AIP. It would be surprising for = me if > AIP-12 is accepted because the idea is good and the PR claims to back = it is > good. >=20 > My 2 cents. >=20 > Cheers, > Kevin Y >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 1:14 AM Driesprong, Fokko = > wrote: >=20 >> An AIP should be a couple of PR's. I think splitting up major code = changes >> into multiple PR's is a good thing to maintain progress and you don't = need >> to resolve the conflicts all the time. >>=20 >> We could also look at different Apache projects. For example, for = Kafka you >> need to open a KIP if you're changing a public method. I think this = is >> easier (to automate) for JVM based languages. I think we need to open = a >> Wiki to describe the process (or maybe on the Github template = itself), >> which states: >>=20 >> - Only (python)docs changes, no ticket is required. >> - Simple code changes, create a Jira ticket. >> - Fundamental changes, open an AIP. >>=20 >> I like to have a PR with the AIP because conceptually everything = always >> looks nice, but when you enter the trenches and start coding, you = will >> always hit some edge cases which needs a creative solution. It would = be >> nice to also discuss the edge cases before merging the actual code. = If the >> PR is really big, the AIP could also have a couple of phases which = each end >> up in a different PR. >>=20 >> Cheers, Fokko >>=20 >>=20 >> Op zo 24 feb. 2019 om 09:41 schreef Ash Berlin-Taylor = : >>=20 >>> My thinking on AIPs that have a PR is that a vote on the AIP is "is = this >>> feature/design goal a good idea" but discussion about the code or = merging >>> the pr can happen on GitHub as usual. >>>=20 >>> For example AIP-12 is an excellent Idea but there are a few = questions to >>> answer about the design. (The author of the proposal also has an = open >> PR). >>>=20 >>> A bit of a thin distinction perhaps, but in the general case I was >>> thinking not a discussion on the PR. >>>=20 >>> Having written all that down I can see a workflow something like = this: >>>=20 >>> - start AIP >>> - get loose consensus on list >>> - open PR >>> - call vote on AIP + that specific PR. >>>=20 >>> (That falls down if we want to open multiple PRs to complete an AIP) >>>=20 >>> -ash >>>=20 >>> On 22 February 2019 19:28:15 GMT, Tao Feng = wrote: >>>> I think AIP is a proposal which is back by a PR. Hence it should >>>> consider a >>>> major code change(normal code change shouldn't need a AIP). >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 2:54 AM Ash Berlin-Taylor >>>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> There was a post about this AIP on 1 Febuary (but no replies other >>>> than >>>>> me), and AIPs are not code changes so the point about veto doesn't >>>> apply >>>>> here I don't think?. >>>>>=20 >>>>> But yes, I think the rough idea of there should be apparent = consensus >>>>> before a vote is called makes sense. I was using "Lazy consensus" = in >>>>> calling my vote as no one else spoke up on the discussion thread = ;) >>>>>=20 >>>>> -ash >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 21 Feb 2019, at 20:22, Tao Feng wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong. I think normally it starts with = a >>>>>> [DISCUSS] email thread for all the technical details discussion. = If >>>>>> everyone aligns, we could move to the vote thread. Here are some >>>>> guidelines >>>>>> found on the apache website( >>>>> https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html) >>>>>> . A few points captured: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> ``` >>>>>> A code-modification proposal may be stopped dead in its tracks by = a >>>> -1 >>>>> vote >>>>>> by a qualified voter. This constitutes a veto, and it cannot be >>>> overruled >>>>>> nor overridden by anyone. Vetos stand until and unless withdrawn = by >>>> their >>>>>> casters. >>>>>> ``` >>>>>> I think we should make sure everyone is aligned in the discuss >>>> thread >>>>>> before we move to vote thread. WDYT. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 9:26 AM Ash Berlin-Taylor = >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I'm about to send a vote email for the first AIP that I (hope) = is >>>> going >>>>> to >>>>>>> be a simple and straight forward one to accept. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Since we haven't defined the process of how/when we vote on AIPs >>>> I'm >>>>>>> making it up as we go along :) >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Some points: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> - A failed vote on an AIP is not the same as rejecting the AIP, = it >>>> could >>>>>>> just need more refinement. >>>>>>> - a proposal requires three positive votes and no negative ones = in >>>> order >>>>>>> to pass >>>>>>> - I've picked a some-what random time of 1 week for AIP votes >>>> (compared >>>>> to >>>>>>> the 3 days for release votes) >>>>>>> - members of the community are encouraged to cast votes. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> If no one objects to these "rules" I'll write them up in the = wiki >>>> along >>>>>>> with a template email to use for AIP votes. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -ash >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20