From dev-return-6443-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@airflow.incubator.apache.org Thu Sep 6 20:34:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 471BF180668 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 20:34:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 99371 invoked by uid 500); 6 Sep 2018 18:34:43 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@airflow.incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@airflow.incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@airflow.incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 99356 invoked by uid 99); 6 Sep 2018 18:34:43 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 18:34:43 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id B0382C8F68 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:34:42 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.001 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=disabled Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ui2nHNsMSYep for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:34:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with SMTP id 2E59B5F118 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:34:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 99348 invoked by uid 99); 6 Sep 2018 18:34:39 -0000 Received: from mail-relay.apache.org (HELO mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org) (207.244.88.152) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 18:34:39 +0000 Received: from mail-qk1-f177.google.com (mail-qk1-f177.google.com [209.85.222.177]) by mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mailrelay1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPSA id D8014D33 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:34:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qk1-f177.google.com with SMTP id h138-v6so8014425qke.8 for ; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:34:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51A/LYBJJPNYeD/6swup+QMpZbclZYIfdq+xvsWXqj/TxpriUHqS 03qubYpIDwOMIrVoeSuelOwCA4g9PK+uWMVragM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdaRXOzyTvV/9k1KyU92KkDqLT0Ohq0tUOKBz9m2f3V8IjCE4NR5HAMWlrXK+H53kORlMIp258tI74AHlHldC2U= X-Received: by 2002:a37:179e:: with SMTP id 30-v6mr3038502qkx.33.1536258878399; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:34:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Sid Anand Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 11:34:26 -0700 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: [VOTE] Replace with Gitter with Slack? To: dev@airflow.incubator.apache.org Cc: Arthur Wiedmer , Bolke de Bruin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000baeb8205753824d4" --000000000000baeb8205753824d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good points Ben. Gitter has Communities and Rooms. Currently, we seem to be represented in 2 Gitter communities and a few rooms: - Airflow Developers (This was our first Gitter community) - 2 rooms - Dev - Lobby - Apache - incubator-airflow The Airflow Developers community seems to be the one we had before joining Apache. It's a black hole in the sense that we can't create new rooms under it, we don't know who owns it (possibly Airbnb), & people show up once in a while, ask a question, and don't get a response. This one should definitely be shut down. The other community is the Apache one, which is where our Github gitter badge on the Readme.md points. We have a single room there called incubator-airflow. This is what you refer to.. essentially, it's impossible to have more than one conversation at a time. It's jarring. Committers are allowed to create new rooms under this community, but that functionality is not open to the general public. I just had one of my colleagues try it out -- as he's not an Apache committer, he was not able to create a room under Apache. This is not community friendly. In Slack, any one can create a channel, so it supports multiple concurrent conversations. Message retention will be arguably/slightly better on Slack than Gitter. Slack will support multiple conversations and has a good desktop client. Gitter does not require you to register a new account, allow you to use your GitHub account, but as mentioned, the registration is still pretty lightweight. -s On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 9:55 AM Ben Gregory wrote: > +1 to Slack over Gitter but understand the concerns of disruption to > community and message retention. > > IMO - Gitter's main disadvantage is forcing all conversations through one > channel which means following any one issue is confusing and inefficient. > I've stopped checking it so much precisely because multiple conversations > happening at once make it difficult to follow, with or without retention. > And based on the number of questions that get asked over and over again, = I > would be surprised if people are actually looking through old messages > prior to posting their own as much as might be expected. > > Would this project qualify for a Non-profit discount? Free for 250 users > and 85% off after that on a standard plan. Unsure as to the Apache > Foundation's legal status and how this would fall under it. > https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833-Slack-for-Nonprofits > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:20 AM Sid Anand wrote: > > > Some good points. > > > > @Arthur Wiedmer The Apache mailing list is > > always the official record and Google indexes it well, so that any > previous > > discussions on the mailing lists are available to future generations. I > > originally started this thread with the thought of having everyone on t= he > > mailing list, but then I heard that people need some sort of near > real-time > > support in an try-fail-ask iterative fashion -- something that is not > met > > by the async nature of mailing lists. This might be for more people > setting > > up Airflow for the first time and hitting some stumbling blocks. We don= 't > > want walled gardens for sure, but there seems to be a legitimate ask fo= r > > near real-time collaboration, so the discussion now is just Gitter vs > > Slack. Slack does require registering, all be it pretty light-weight, b= ut > > offers a nice desktop client. > > > > @Bolke de Bruin I'm concerned about the disruption > to > > the existing community as well. I'm hoping the vote here reveals that > > concern in numbers. Also, why can't we shutdown the Gitter channel? At > the > > least, we can stop pointing to it. > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 7:55 AM William Horton > > wrote: > > > > > +1 > > > > > > *William Horton* > > > Backend Engineer > > > > > > 90 Fifth Avenue, 3rd Floor > > > New York NY 10011 > > > m: 404.432.8480 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 10:03 AM, Ravi Kotecha > > > wrote: > > > > > > > -1 > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 2:01 PM Chandu Kavar > wrote: > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 10:30 AM Sid Anand wrote= : > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Folks! > > > > > > In the Apache tradition, I'd like to ask the community to vote = on > > > > > replacing > > > > > > Gitter with Slack. > > > > > > > > > > > > For more information about what was recently discussed, refer t= o > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8eeb6c46ec431b9158f87022ceaa5e > > > > ed8dbaaf082c887dae55f86f96@%3Cdev.airflow.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > > > > > > If you would like to replace Gitter with Slack, vote +1. If you > > want > > > to > > > > > > keep things they way they are, vote -1. You can also vote 0 if > you > > > > don't > > > > > > care either way because you wouldn't use either much, preferrin= g > to > > > use > > > > > the > > > > > > mailing list instead, which is highly encouraged as it is > Apache's > > > > > official > > > > > > record. > > > > > > > > > > > > The vote will be open for 72 hours and will expire at 8p PT thi= s > > > > > Saturday. > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. If the community votes for Slack, we could create our own > > > > workspace > > > > > > (e.g. airflow.slack.com). > > > > > > P.P.S. In general, anyone in the community can launch a vote li= ke > > > this > > > > > from > > > > > > time to time. There is no binding/non-binding distinction since > we > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > > running an official Apache vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > [image: Astronomer Logo] > > *Ben Gregory* > Data Engineer > > Mobile: +1-615-483-3653 =E2=80=A2 Online: astronomer.io < > https://www.astronomer.io/> > > Download our new ebook. From > Volume > to Value - A Guide to Data Engineering. > --000000000000baeb8205753824d4--