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From "Mattmann, Chris A (3980)" <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Accept GenApp into Apache Airavata
Date Thu, 26 Mar 2015 06:39:19 GMT
Hi Suresh,

I would honestly advise against this for a multitude of
reasons. Note we recently went through a similar thought
on OODT/Wings with the prevailing sentiment from me and
a few others being suggesting Wings either goes through
Incubation at the ASF or remain at Github until there is
an actual connection (direct) between Wings and OODT such
that they are complimentary products and “bound” together
(aka you can’t release one without the other).

Here are a few reasons:

1. Binding the products together on a committee requires
that the committee (PMC) have merit in each other’s products.
I don’t see that starting off at least.

2. Having mutual products together also potentially binds
their release cycle - sure we can release as a committee
“independent products”, but there is then scrutiny and
sometimes “forced” instead of “natural” binding glue
developed between the software products if it wasn’t there

3. IP clearance; brand; trademarks etc are things that
the PMC can do, but that things like the Incubator is set
up to help (or even direct to TLP options that are now
available [see Zest]).

There are many more reasons that “umbrella” projects didn’t
work out at the ASF and are generally discouraged. I wouldn’t
recommend turning Airavata into one.

Instead, I would recommend the following:

R1. GenApp through the Incubator
R2. Mentors include the Airavata community PMC members that
are ASF or IPMC members (Suresh, Marlon, etc.)
R3. GenApp consider a few Airavata PMC/committers in its
initial PPMC makeup to develop synergy between the groups,
and to see if there are answers to 1-3 and more to be worked
out during Incubation.

If the result of R1-R3 yields a desire to “graduate into
Airavata” the answers to the questions 1-3 above will have
been worked out and it will be a much easier answer then.


Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Chief Architect
Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA

-----Original Message-----
From: <Marru>, Suresh <>
Reply-To: "" <>
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 11:14 AM
To: Emre Brookes <>
Cc: Airavata Dev <>
Subject: [DISCUSS] Accept GenApp into Apache Airavata

>Hi All,
>Since there is not much discussion on this thread, I will make it more
>explicit on one option (which is Emre’s preference) and solicit further
>How about Emre can bring in GenApp into Airavata, integrate it further
>into Airavata and bootstrap the community here. Some of Airavata
>Community might get interested in GenApp. Once there is a quorum and feel
>if GenApp goals are diverging from Airavata (or if the community becomes
>distinct), then GenApp could go through incubator and get on a path
>towards a Apache Top Level Project (TLP).
>Either way, Emre has been guiding GSoC students, on Airavata Integration,
>I suggest they join the dev list and write their proposals on this list.
>Thoughts, concerns?
>P.S Chris, I am taking liberty to send your private list reply to this,
>please excuse. 
>On Mar 22, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980)
><> wrote:
>Hi everyone! Welcome Emre and if there are any questions about
>Incubation I’d be happy to help answer them. Suresh great work
>bringing the conversation to the lists.
>Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>Chief Architect
>Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
>NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
>Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
>University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Marru, Suresh <> wrote:
>> Hi Emre,
>> I firstly applaud the CCP-SAS team in having GenApp as an Open Source
>>project with an interest to grow a community. Normally, Apache has not
>>been encouraging “umbrella” projects where lot of sub-projects exist. So
>>the suggest mechanism, will be to go through the Incubator Process and
>>work towards a GenApp top level project. But, here is a debatable
>>situation and there are multiple ways we can view this.
>> * GenApp can be considered a downstream project of Airavata in which
>>case it can be argued for a stand alone project.
>> * GenApp is consuming Airavata API’s and helping users build gateways
>>based on their applications (the lab generated code you refer below). In
>>this perspective, GenApp could rightly belong into Airavata itself and
>>have its own product releases. This is very similar to how Airavata
>>currently releases XBaya and very soon a PHP Gateway.
>> Ofcourse, there is a pragmatic way to approach this and have you get
>>started within Airavata and if we realize its significant to stand on
>>its own (and you might have generated some developer/community interest
>>by then), this can then spin off into an incubator project and
>>eventually into a TLP.
>> I am cc’ing Airavata Community for input. I would have suggested apache
>>incubator general list, but that may be early to start with. We should
>>have expert advice here (there are a lot of apache members on airavata
>>pmc and we have Chris Mattmann who is member of the current board).
>> Cheers,
>> Suresh
>>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Emre Brookes <>
>>> Dear Suresh Marru,
>>> I am writing this letter pursuant to your consideration of the
>>>inclusion of
>>> "GenApp" as a sub-project of Apache Airavata.
>>> The GenApp framework is a new open framework generating code on a set
>>> of scientific modules that is easily extensible to new environments.
>>> For example, one can take a set of module definitions and generate a
>>> complete HTML5/PHP science gateway and a Qt4/GUI application on the
>>> identical set of modules.  If a new technology comes along, the
>>> framework can easily be extended to new "target languages" by
>>> including appropriate code fragments without effecting the underlying
>>> modules. One motivation for the development was based upon observation
>>> of scientific lab generated code, which frequently is underfunded and
>>> developed by overburdened researchers.  Many times useful code and
>>> routines are lost with the retirement or redirected interest of the
>>> scientists.  One goal for this framework is to insure good scientific
>>> software can be preserved in an ever evolving software landscape
>>> without the expense of a full time CS staff.   A GSoC 2014 project
>>> integrated GenApp with Apache Airavata in the HTML5/PHP, Qt3/GUI
>>> and Qt4/GUI "target languages".
>>> The GenApp framework was developed for and is currently in use by
>>> CCP-SAS to make accessible codes involved
>>> in the the scientific analysis of small angle scattering experiments.
>>> After reviewing the philosophy of Apache
>>> we feel in concert and believe the GenApp code and Apache will benefit
>>> by its inclusion.  We understand that there will be additional work
>>> and overhead involved in managing such a project, but that their are
>>> many benefits.  As one of our projects goals is to insure the longevity
>>> of scientific lab developed software, building a community is
>>> Apache membership will provide an established organization for users
>>> and developers to collaborate. As we are in a rapid growth phase,
>>> with multiple scientific labs interested in bringing their codes to the
>>> framework, and a formal roll out to the scientific community of
>>> a GenApp generated science gateway at the end of May, we feel the
>>> time is now to apply the Apache model.
>>> Please let me know if you have any questions or wish further details.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Emre
>>> Emre Brookes
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Biochemistry,
>>> U. Texas Health Science Center @ San Antonio

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