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From Suresh Marru <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Accept GenApp into Apache Airavata
Date Thu, 26 Mar 2015 13:58:30 GMT
Hi Chris,

I appreciate you taking time in such a detail, very insightful. I am ok either way and will
defer to Emre. 


> On Mar 26, 2015, at 2:39 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <>
> Hi Suresh,
> I would honestly advise against this for a multitude of
> reasons. Note we recently went through a similar thought
> on OODT/Wings with the prevailing sentiment from me and
> a few others being suggesting Wings either goes through
> Incubation at the ASF or remain at Github until there is
> an actual connection (direct) between Wings and OODT such
> that they are complimentary products and “bound” together
> (aka you can’t release one without the other).
> Here are a few reasons:
> 1. Binding the products together on a committee requires
> that the committee (PMC) have merit in each other’s products.
> I don’t see that starting off at least.
> 2. Having mutual products together also potentially binds
> their release cycle - sure we can release as a committee
> “independent products”, but there is then scrutiny and
> sometimes “forced” instead of “natural” binding glue
> developed between the software products if it wasn’t there
> already.
> 3. IP clearance; brand; trademarks etc are things that
> the PMC can do, but that things like the Incubator is set
> up to help (or even direct to TLP options that are now
> available [see Zest]).
> There are many more reasons that “umbrella” projects didn’t
> work out at the ASF and are generally discouraged. I wouldn’t
> recommend turning Airavata into one.
> Instead, I would recommend the following:
> R1. GenApp through the Incubator
> R2. Mentors include the Airavata community PMC members that
> are ASF or IPMC members (Suresh, Marlon, etc.)
> R3. GenApp consider a few Airavata PMC/committers in its
> initial PPMC makeup to develop synergy between the groups,
> and to see if there are answers to 1-3 and more to be worked
> out during Incubation.
> If the result of R1-R3 yields a desire to “graduate into
> Airavata” the answers to the questions 1-3 above will have
> been worked out and it will be a much easier answer then.
> Cheers,
> Chris
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Chief Architect
> Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
> Email:
> WWW:
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <Marru>, Suresh <>
> Reply-To: "" <>
> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 at 11:14 AM
> To: Emre Brookes <>
> Cc: Airavata Dev <>
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Accept GenApp into Apache Airavata
>> Hi All,
>> Since there is not much discussion on this thread, I will make it more
>> explicit on one option (which is Emre’s preference) and solicit further
>> discussion. 
>> How about Emre can bring in GenApp into Airavata, integrate it further
>> into Airavata and bootstrap the community here. Some of Airavata
>> Community might get interested in GenApp. Once there is a quorum and feel
>> if GenApp goals are diverging from Airavata (or if the community becomes
>> distinct), then GenApp could go through incubator and get on a path
>> towards a Apache Top Level Project (TLP).
>> Either way, Emre has been guiding GSoC students, on Airavata Integration,
>> I suggest they join the dev list and write their proposals on this list.
>> Thoughts, concerns?
>> Cheers,
>> Suresh
>> P.S Chris, I am taking liberty to send your private list reply to this,
>> please excuse. 
>> On Mar 22, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980)
>> <> wrote:
>> Hi everyone! Welcome Emre and if there are any questions about
>> Incubation I’d be happy to help answer them. Suresh great work
>> bringing the conversation to the lists.
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Chief Architect
>> Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
>> Email:
>> WWW:
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Marru, Suresh <> wrote:
>>> Hi Emre,
>>> I firstly applaud the CCP-SAS team in having GenApp as an Open Source
>>> project with an interest to grow a community. Normally, Apache has not
>>> been encouraging “umbrella” projects where lot of sub-projects exist. So
>>> the suggest mechanism, will be to go through the Incubator Process and
>>> work towards a GenApp top level project. But, here is a debatable
>>> situation and there are multiple ways we can view this.
>>> * GenApp can be considered a downstream project of Airavata in which
>>> case it can be argued for a stand alone project.
>>> * GenApp is consuming Airavata API’s and helping users build gateways
>>> based on their applications (the lab generated code you refer below). In
>>> this perspective, GenApp could rightly belong into Airavata itself and
>>> have its own product releases. This is very similar to how Airavata
>>> currently releases XBaya and very soon a PHP Gateway.
>>> Ofcourse, there is a pragmatic way to approach this and have you get
>>> started within Airavata and if we realize its significant to stand on
>>> its own (and you might have generated some developer/community interest
>>> by then), this can then spin off into an incubator project and
>>> eventually into a TLP.
>>> I am cc’ing Airavata Community for input. I would have suggested apache
>>> incubator general list, but that may be early to start with. We should
>>> have expert advice here (there are a lot of apache members on airavata
>>> pmc and we have Chris Mattmann who is member of the current board).
>>> Cheers,
>>> Suresh
>>>> On Mar 19, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Emre Brookes <>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Suresh Marru,
>>>> I am writing this letter pursuant to your consideration of the
>>>> inclusion of
>>>> "GenApp" as a sub-project of Apache Airavata.
>>>> The GenApp framework is a new open framework generating code on a set
>>>> of scientific modules that is easily extensible to new environments.
>>>> For example, one can take a set of module definitions and generate a
>>>> complete HTML5/PHP science gateway and a Qt4/GUI application on the
>>>> identical set of modules.  If a new technology comes along, the
>>>> framework can easily be extended to new "target languages" by
>>>> including appropriate code fragments without effecting the underlying
>>>> modules. One motivation for the development was based upon observation
>>>> of scientific lab generated code, which frequently is underfunded and
>>>> developed by overburdened researchers.  Many times useful code and
>>>> routines are lost with the retirement or redirected interest of the
>>>> scientists.  One goal for this framework is to insure good scientific
>>>> software can be preserved in an ever evolving software landscape
>>>> without the expense of a full time CS staff.   A GSoC 2014 project
>>>> integrated GenApp with Apache Airavata in the HTML5/PHP, Qt3/GUI
>>>> and Qt4/GUI "target languages".
>>>> The GenApp framework was developed for and is currently in use by
>>>> CCP-SAS to make accessible codes involved
>>>> in the the scientific analysis of small angle scattering experiments.
>>>> After reviewing the philosophy of Apache
>>>> we feel in concert and believe the GenApp code and Apache will benefit
>>>> by its inclusion.  We understand that there will be additional work
>>>> and overhead involved in managing such a project, but that their are
>>>> many benefits.  As one of our projects goals is to insure the longevity
>>>> of scientific lab developed software, building a community is
>>>> essential.
>>>> Apache membership will provide an established organization for users
>>>> and developers to collaborate. As we are in a rapid growth phase,
>>>> with multiple scientific labs interested in bringing their codes to the
>>>> framework, and a formal roll out to the scientific community of
>>>> a GenApp generated science gateway at the end of May, we feel the
>>>> time is now to apply the Apache model.
>>>> Please let me know if you have any questions or wish further details.
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Emre
>>>> Emre Brookes
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of Biochemistry,
>>>> U. Texas Health Science Center @ San Antonio

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