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From Nipurn Doshi <nido...@umail.iu.edu>
Subject Re: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata.
Date Thu, 16 Oct 2014 23:06:15 GMT
Hi,

How about I suggest a third option where I have the current code setup
which has access to thrift classes, airavata interface classes and a
complete framework ( Laravel ) that supports rest apis to generate json
data that we are looking at?

I am suggesting this only because I have done this in previous projects I
have worked on using Laravel.

Although, it's in PHP.
 On 16-Oct-2014 6:47 pm, "Shameera Rathnayaka" <shameerainfo@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Supun,
>
> Considering we are going to provide web base GUI support and  JavaScript
> is a well-known client side language, I would select JavaScript over
> Python. I am not much familiar with Python, so would like to know the
> advantages we get by selecting python here.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Shameera.
>
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Supun Kamburugamuva <supun06@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Shameera,
>>
>> Why you prefer JavaScript over a language like Python?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Supun..
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Shameera Rathnayaka <
>> shameerainfo@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ​Hi,
>>>
>>> First of all thanks everyone for giving valuable inputs. After doing
>>> some background search and talking to different people in the University
>>> who has used different workflow languages, I myself convinced that
>>> introducing an another workflow language is not what actually they need. By
>>> changing exiting workflow language to another will not solve problems. What
>>> they asking is a easy way to construct the workflows. Indirectly what they
>>> asking for a sort of API which they can use to generate the workflows and
>>> run it. Correct me if i am wrong here.
>>>
>>> As most of above replies depict,  if we can get a simple API, as an
>>> example, for a web based application, JavaScript API would be a good
>>> solution, and probably JSON would be a good candidate for language, instead
>>> of XML.
>>>
>>> Airavata community already have started to implement web base GUI. Hence
>>> introducing a JSON base JavaScript API would be great help. WDYT?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Shameera.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Aleksander Slominski (NY) <
>>> alekny7@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> it is not dataflow instead focused on orchestrating REST services but
>>>> you may find it useful datapoint - we created worfklow service that uses
>>>> natively JavaScript and JSON to describe what happens during workflow
>>>> execution:
>>>> https://www.ng.bluemix.net/docs/#services/workflow/index.html#coewf002
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>>
>>>> Alek
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Suresh Marru <smarru@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>>
>>>>> Great to hear OODT community will be interested in adopting a JSON
>>>>> based workflow language and potentially a web based composer as well.
>>>>> Airavata previously had BPEL support initially through a home grown
>>>>> implementation [1] by Alek Slominski and later through Apache ODE [2].
Also
>>>>> a white paper [3] by Alek on this topic is an interesting read.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am of the same opinion that we should adopt something more modern as
>>>>> the challenges from scientific workflows seems to be converging with
the
>>>>> data flow patterns in business workflows.
>>>>>
>>>>> It will be great if we can all compile a list of potential candidates
>>>>> and hack them through.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suresh
>>>>> [1] -
>>>>> http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-1-84628-757-2_14#page-1
>>>>> [2] -
>>>>> http://www.academia.edu/1485773/Experience_with_adapting_a_WS-BPEL_runtime_for_eScience_workflows
>>>>> [3] -
>>>>> http://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/services/2010/4129/00/4129a326.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 18, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <
>>>>> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Hi Guys,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I've been interested in this too - we don't per have a specific
>>>>> > OODT workflow language, but we specific workflows using XML, and
>>>>> > other configuration (we are also thinking of moving to JSON for
>>>>> > this).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > In the past I've also looked at YAWL and BPEL - both seem complex
>>>>> > to me.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I wonder at the end of the day if we should adopt something more
>>>>> > modern like PIG or some other data flow type of language (PIG
>>>>> > is really neat).
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Cheers,
>>>>> > Chris
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>> > Chief Architect
>>>>> > Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
>>>>> > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>> > Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
>>>>> > Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>>>>> > WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> > Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>> > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: Shameera Rathnayaka <shameerainfo@gmail.com>
>>>>> > Reply-To: "architecture@airavata.apache.org"
>>>>> > <architecture@airavata.apache.org>
>>>>> > Date: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:26 AM
>>>>> > To: "architecture@airavata.apache.org" <
>>>>> architecture@airavata.apache.org>,
>>>>> > dev <dev@airavata.apache.org>
>>>>> > Subject: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> As we all know Airavata has its own workflow language call XWF.
>>>>> When XWF
>>>>> >> was introduced, main focus points are interoperability and
>>>>> convertibility.
>>>>> >> But with years of experience it is convinced that above
>>>>> requirements are
>>>>> >> not really useful when we come to real world use cases. And
XWF is
>>>>> XML
>>>>> >> based bulky language where we attache WSDLs and Workflow image
it
>>>>> self.
>>>>> >> But
>>>>> >> with the recent changes WSDL part is being removed from XWF.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It is worth to evaluate handy Scientific workflow languages
in
>>>>> industry
>>>>> >> and
>>>>> >> find out pros and cons, at the end of this evaluation we need
to
>>>>> come up
>>>>> >> with idea how we should improve Airavata workflow language,
either
>>>>> we can
>>>>> >> improve existing XWF language, totally change to a new language
>>>>> available
>>>>> >> in industry or write a new light weight language. Basic
>>>>> requirements that
>>>>> >> we expect from new improvement are, high usability, flexible,
light
>>>>> weight
>>>>> >> and real time monitoring support. As you can see above requirements
>>>>> are
>>>>> >> not
>>>>> >> direct comes with workflow languages but we need workflow language
>>>>> which
>>>>> >> help to support above requirements.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> After reading few papers and googling, initially i have come
up with
>>>>> >> following three existing languages,
>>>>> >> 1. YAWL <http://www.yawlfoundation.org/>
>>>>> >> 2. WS-BPEL
>>>>> >> ​3. SIDL
>>>>> >> <http://computation.llnl.gov/casc/components/index.html#page=home>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> In my opinion SIDL is more familiar with scientific domain,
>>>>> Radical-SAGA
>>>>> >> also uses slightly modified version of SIDL. Other than above
three
>>>>> >> languages we can come up with simple workflow language base
on
>>>>> json(or
>>>>> >> yaml) which support all our requirements for some extends.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It would be grate if I can get more input regarding the $Subject
>>>>> form the
>>>>> >> airavata community. You all are more than welcome to provide
any
>>>>> type of
>>>>> >> suggestions.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>>> >> Shameera.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> ​
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> Best Regards,
>>>>> >> Shameera Rathnayaka.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
>>>>> >> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Shameera Rathnayaka.
>>>
>>> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
>>> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Supun Kamburugamuva
>> Member, Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org
>> E-mail: supun06@gmail.com;  Mobile: +1 812 369 6762
>> Blog: http://supunk.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Shameera Rathnayaka.
>
> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/
>

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