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From K Yoshimoto <kenn...@sdsc.edu>
Subject Re: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata.
Date Thu, 16 Oct 2014 22:52:18 GMT

I prefer python myself, but if the API is clean, it should be
usable from a large number of languages on the client side.

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 06:46:36PM -0400, Shameera Rathnayaka wrote:
> Hi Supun,
> 
> Considering we are going to provide web base GUI support and  JavaScript is
> a well-known client side language, I would select JavaScript over Python. I
> am not much familiar with Python, so would like to know the advantages we
> get by selecting python here.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Shameera.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Supun Kamburugamuva <supun06@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Shameera,
> >
> > Why you prefer JavaScript over a language like Python?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Supun..
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Shameera Rathnayaka <
> > shameerainfo@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> ​Hi,
> >>
> >> First of all thanks everyone for giving valuable inputs. After doing some
> >> background search and talking to different people in the University who has
> >> used different workflow languages, I myself convinced that introducing an
> >> another workflow language is not what actually they need. By changing
> >> exiting workflow language to another will not solve problems. What they
> >> asking is a easy way to construct the workflows. Indirectly what they
> >> asking for a sort of API which they can use to generate the workflows and
> >> run it. Correct me if i am wrong here.
> >>
> >> As most of above replies depict,  if we can get a simple API, as an
> >> example, for a web based application, JavaScript API would be a good
> >> solution, and probably JSON would be a good candidate for language, instead
> >> of XML.
> >>
> >> Airavata community already have started to implement web base GUI. Hence
> >> introducing a JSON base JavaScript API would be great help. WDYT?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Shameera.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Aleksander Slominski (NY) <
> >> alekny7@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> it is not dataflow instead focused on orchestrating REST services but
> >>> you may find it useful datapoint - we created worfklow service that uses
> >>> natively JavaScript and JSON to describe what happens during workflow
> >>> execution:
> >>> https://www.ng.bluemix.net/docs/#services/workflow/index.html#coewf002
> >>>
> >>> HTH,
> >>>
> >>> Alek
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Suresh Marru <smarru@apache.org>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Chris,
> >>>>
> >>>> Great to hear OODT community will be interested in adopting a JSON
> >>>> based workflow language and potentially a web based composer as well.
> >>>> Airavata previously had BPEL support initially through a home grown
> >>>> implementation [1] by Alek Slominski and later through Apache ODE [2].
Also
> >>>> a white paper [3] by Alek on this topic is an interesting read.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am of the same opinion that we should adopt something more modern
as
> >>>> the challenges from scientific workflows seems to be converging with
the
> >>>> data flow patterns in business workflows.
> >>>>
> >>>> It will be great if we can all compile a list of potential candidates
> >>>> and hack them through.
> >>>>
> >>>> Suresh
> >>>> [1] -
> >>>> http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-1-84628-757-2_14#page-1
> >>>> [2] -
> >>>> http://www.academia.edu/1485773/Experience_with_adapting_a_WS-BPEL_runtime_for_eScience_workflows
> >>>> [3] -
> >>>> http://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/services/2010/4129/00/4129a326.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 18, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <
> >>>> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > Hi Guys,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I've been interested in this too - we don't per have a specific
> >>>> > OODT workflow language, but we specific workflows using XML, and
> >>>> > other configuration (we are also thinking of moving to JSON for
> >>>> > this).
> >>>> >
> >>>> > In the past I've also looked at YAWL and BPEL - both seem complex
> >>>> > to me.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I wonder at the end of the day if we should adopt something more
> >>>> > modern like PIG or some other data flow type of language (PIG
> >>>> > is really neat).
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Cheers,
> >>>> > Chris
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>> > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> >>>> > Chief Architect
> >>>> > Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
> >>>> > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> >>>> > Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
> >>>> > Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> >>>> > WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> >>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>> > Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> >>>> > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> >>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>>> > From: Shameera Rathnayaka <shameerainfo@gmail.com>
> >>>> > Reply-To: "architecture@airavata.apache.org"
> >>>> > <architecture@airavata.apache.org>
> >>>> > Date: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:26 AM
> >>>> > To: "architecture@airavata.apache.org" <
> >>>> architecture@airavata.apache.org>,
> >>>> > dev <dev@airavata.apache.org>
> >>>> > Subject: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> Hi All,
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> As we all know Airavata has its own workflow language call
XWF. When
> >>>> XWF
> >>>> >> was introduced, main focus points are interoperability and
> >>>> convertibility.
> >>>> >> But with years of experience it is convinced that above requirements
> >>>> are
> >>>> >> not really useful when we come to real world use cases. And
XWF is
> >>>> XML
> >>>> >> based bulky language where we attache WSDLs and Workflow image
it
> >>>> self.
> >>>> >> But
> >>>> >> with the recent changes WSDL part is being removed from XWF.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> It is worth to evaluate handy Scientific workflow languages
in
> >>>> industry
> >>>> >> and
> >>>> >> find out pros and cons, at the end of this evaluation we need
to
> >>>> come up
> >>>> >> with idea how we should improve Airavata workflow language,
either
> >>>> we can
> >>>> >> improve existing XWF language, totally change to a new language
> >>>> available
> >>>> >> in industry or write a new light weight language. Basic requirements
> >>>> that
> >>>> >> we expect from new improvement are, high usability, flexible,
light
> >>>> weight
> >>>> >> and real time monitoring support. As you can see above requirements
> >>>> are
> >>>> >> not
> >>>> >> direct comes with workflow languages but we need workflow language
> >>>> which
> >>>> >> help to support above requirements.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> After reading few papers and googling, initially i have come
up with
> >>>> >> following three existing languages,
> >>>> >> 1. YAWL <http://www.yawlfoundation.org/>
> >>>> >> 2. WS-BPEL
> >>>> >> ​3. SIDL
> >>>> >> <http://computation.llnl.gov/casc/components/index.html#page=home>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> In my opinion SIDL is more familiar with scientific domain,
> >>>> Radical-SAGA
> >>>> >> also uses slightly modified version of SIDL. Other than above
three
> >>>> >> languages we can come up with simple workflow language base
on
> >>>> json(or
> >>>> >> yaml) which support all our requirements for some extends.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> It would be grate if I can get more input regarding the $Subject
> >>>> form the
> >>>> >> airavata community. You all are more than welcome to provide
any
> >>>> type of
> >>>> >> suggestions.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Thanks,
> >>>> >> Shameera.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ​
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> --
> >>>> >> Best Regards,
> >>>> >> Shameera Rathnayaka.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
> >>>> >> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Shameera Rathnayaka.
> >>
> >> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
> >> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Supun Kamburugamuva
> > Member, Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org
> > E-mail: supun06@gmail.com;  Mobile: +1 812 369 6762
> > Blog: http://supunk.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best Regards,
> Shameera Rathnayaka.
> 
> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/

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