Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-airavata-dev-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-airavata-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 51452113A2 for ; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:18:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 99118 invoked by uid 500); 19 Sep 2014 21:18:12 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-airavata-dev-archive@airavata.apache.org Received: (qmail 99059 invoked by uid 500); 19 Sep 2014 21:18:12 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@airavata.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@airavata.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@airavata.apache.org Delivered-To: moderator for dev@airavata.apache.org Received: (qmail 50220 invoked by uid 99); 19 Sep 2014 21:02:37 -0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of aslomindiana@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.174 as permitted sender) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=kxTpdNqbvsHis6vavxgXDmB4V9BP5ZWvdSxt5+wMHz8=; b=GdC9T9eezFziF3adbuIOvQ/wTwSBe1Rt7B0T8tO3WCyPqF1gvjDQpoivD/S/GOJSlT XBS5VQnJZs/1jV9lUCw32ZD801yFcXJECH4aI+uVdBgdiRXqG4OxZWEI1McI7BCPz9De Ia1pFnIAyiDnV/fj5+uJUe7mfmXadG1KilN10T4MlqtKXRXD+pbs7Hutyz/H4outnA4G UC3vyivOAD9ggK5/Mbh5YkdFpNlyJoleqL4i8+w7AAvL7eJYMyb3UwU71AEck7wzvY9F DQrR+al9OAFcYOo6ezWbvxeZRpa36GKa6n1dzM4tLMRhRd2Idn859v68e3WNRV6Twv1z KM3A== X-Received: by 10.194.9.228 with SMTP id d4mr3277327wjb.99.1411160531989; Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:02:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: alekny7@gmail.com Sender: aslomindiana@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <4B3A58EE-54EF-4FE9-A3DA-8EE876299430@apache.org> References: <4B3A58EE-54EF-4FE9-A3DA-8EE876299430@apache.org> From: "Aleksander Slominski (NY)" Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 17:01:51 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9oyaq_2R90QWthXpvPxPDvT4MeM Message-ID: Subject: Re: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata. To: Suresh Marru Cc: Airavata Dev , "architecture@airavata.apache.org" , "dev@oodt.apache.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4508a83af8e20503716a6a X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org --047d7b4508a83af8e20503716a6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, it is not dataflow instead focused on orchestrating REST services but you may find it useful datapoint - we created worfklow service that uses natively JavaScript and JSON to describe what happens during workflow execution: https://www.ng.bluemix.net/docs/#services/workflow/index.html#coewf002 HTH, Alek On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Suresh Marru wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Great to hear OODT community will be interested in adopting a JSON based > workflow language and potentially a web based composer as well. Airavata > previously had BPEL support initially through a home grown implementation > [1] by Alek Slominski and later through Apache ODE [2]. Also a white pape= r > [3] by Alek on this topic is an interesting read. > > I am of the same opinion that we should adopt something more modern as th= e > challenges from scientific workflows seems to be converging with the data > flow patterns in business workflows. > > It will be great if we can all compile a list of potential candidates and > hack them through. > > Suresh > [1] - > http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-1-84628-757-2_14#page-1 > [2] - > http://www.academia.edu/1485773/Experience_with_adapting_a_WS-BPEL_runtim= e_for_eScience_workflows > [3] - > http://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/services/2010/4129/00/4129a326.p= df > > > On Sep 18, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) < > chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > > > Hi Guys, > > > > I've been interested in this too - we don't per have a specific > > OODT workflow language, but we specific workflows using XML, and > > other configuration (we are also thinking of moving to JSON for > > this). > > > > In the past I've also looked at YAWL and BPEL - both seem complex > > to me. > > > > I wonder at the end of the day if we should adopt something more > > modern like PIG or some other data flow type of language (PIG > > is really neat). > > > > Cheers, > > Chris > > > > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > > Chief Architect > > Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398) > > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > > Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527 > > Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov > > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department > > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Shameera Rathnayaka > > Reply-To: "architecture@airavata.apache.org" > > > > Date: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:26 AM > > To: "architecture@airavata.apache.org" >, > > dev > > Subject: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata. > > > >> Hi All, > >> > >> As we all know Airavata has its own workflow language call XWF. When X= WF > >> was introduced, main focus points are interoperability and > convertibility. > >> But with years of experience it is convinced that above requirements a= re > >> not really useful when we come to real world use cases. And XWF is XML > >> based bulky language where we attache WSDLs and Workflow image it self= . > >> But > >> with the recent changes WSDL part is being removed from XWF. > >> > >> It is worth to evaluate handy Scientific workflow languages in industr= y > >> and > >> find out pros and cons, at the end of this evaluation we need to come = up > >> with idea how we should improve Airavata workflow language, either we > can > >> improve existing XWF language, totally change to a new language > available > >> in industry or write a new light weight language. Basic requirements > that > >> we expect from new improvement are, high usability, flexible, light > weight > >> and real time monitoring support. As you can see above requirements ar= e > >> not > >> direct comes with workflow languages but we need workflow language whi= ch > >> help to support above requirements. > >> > >> After reading few papers and googling, initially i have come up with > >> following three existing languages, > >> 1. YAWL > >> 2. WS-BPEL > >> =E2=80=8B3. SIDL > >> > >> > >> In my opinion SIDL is more familiar with scientific domain, Radical-SA= GA > >> also uses slightly modified version of SIDL. Other than above three > >> languages we can come up with simple workflow language base on json(or > >> yaml) which support all our requirements for some extends. > >> > >> It would be grate if I can get more input regarding the $Subject form > the > >> airavata community. You all are more than welcome to provide any type = of > >> suggestions. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Shameera. > >> > >> =E2=80=8B > >> > >> -- > >> Best Regards, > >> Shameera Rathnayaka. > >> > >> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com > >> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/ > > --=20 The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay --047d7b4508a83af8e20503716a6a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

it is not dataflow instead focused = on orchestrating REST services but you may find it useful datapoint - we cr= eated worfklow service that uses natively JavaScript and JSON to describe w= hat happens during workflow execution:=C2=A0https://www.ng.bluemix.= net/docs/#services/workflow/index.html#coewf002

HTH,

Alek

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Suresh Marru <smarru@= apache.org> wrote:
Hi Chris= ,

Great to hear OODT community will be interested in adopting a JSON based wo= rkflow language and potentially a web based composer as well. Airavata prev= iously had BPEL support initially through a home grown implementation [1] b= y Alek Slominski and later through Apache ODE [2]. Also a white paper [3] b= y Alek on this topic is an interesting read.

I am of the same opinion that we should adopt something more modern as the = challenges from scientific workflows seems to be converging with the data f= low patterns in business workflows.

It will be great if we can all compile a list of potential candidates and h= ack them through.

Suresh
[1] - http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F= 978-1-84628-757-2_14#page-1
[2] - http://www.acade= mia.edu/1485773/Experience_with_adapting_a_WS-BPEL_runtime_for_eScience_wor= kflows
[3] - http://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedin= gs/services/2010/4129/00/4129a326.pdf


On Sep 18, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote= :

> Hi Guys,
>
> I've been interested in this too - we don't per have a specifi= c
> OODT workflow language, but we specific workflows using XML, and
> other configuration (we are also thinking of moving to JSON for
> this).
>
> In the past I've also looked at YAWL and BPEL - both seem complex<= br> > to me.
>
> I wonder at the end of the day if we should adopt something more
> modern like PIG or some other data flow type of language (PIG
> is really neat).
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Chief Architect
> Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@n= asa.gov
> WWW:=C2=A0 http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shameera Rathnayaka <shameerainfo@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "ar= chitecture@airavata.apache.org"
> <architecture@a= iravata.apache.org>
> Date: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:26 AM
> To: "architec= ture@airavata.apache.org" <architecture@airavata.apache.org>,
> dev <dev@airavata.apache= .org>
> Subject: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata.<= br> >
>> Hi All,
>>
>> As we all know Airavata has its own workflow language call XWF. Wh= en XWF
>> was introduced, main focus points are interoperability and convert= ibility.
>> But with years of experience it is convinced that above requiremen= ts are
>> not really useful when we come to real world use cases. And XWF is= XML
>> based bulky language where we attache WSDLs and Workflow image it = self.
>> But
>> with the recent changes WSDL part is being removed from XWF.
>>
>> It is worth to evaluate handy Scientific workflow languages in ind= ustry
>> and
>> find out pros and cons, at the end of this evaluation we need to c= ome up
>> with idea how we should improve Airavata workflow language, either= we can
>> improve existing XWF language, totally change to a new language av= ailable
>> in industry or write a new light weight language. Basic requiremen= ts that
>> we expect from new improvement are, high usability, flexible, ligh= t weight
>> and real time monitoring support. As you can see above requirement= s are
>> not
>> direct comes with workflow languages but we need workflow language= which
>> help to support above requirements.
>>
>> After reading few papers and googling, initially i have come up wi= th
>> following three existing languages,
>> 1. YAWL <http://www.yawlfoundation.org/>
>> 2. WS-BPEL
>> =E2=80=8B3. SIDL
>> <http://computation.llnl.gov/casc/compone= nts/index.html#page=3Dhome>
>>
>> In my opinion SIDL is more familiar with scientific domain, Radica= l-SAGA
>> also uses slightly modified version of SIDL. Other than above thre= e
>> languages we can come up with simple workflow language base on jso= n(or
>> yaml) which support all our requirements for some extends.
>>
>> It would be grate if I can get more input regarding the $Subject f= orm the
>> airavata community. You all are more than welcome to provide any t= ype of
>> suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shameera.
>>
>> =E2=80=8B
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Shameera Rathnayaka.
>>
>> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
>> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/




-- The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
--047d7b4508a83af8e20503716a6a--