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From: =?utf-8?Q?Michael_Andr=C3=A9_Pearce?= <michael.andre.pearce@me.com>
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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 21:47:37 +0100
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] - Propose new sub-project activemq-extras
Message-id: <B55AC143-CDE3-4350-A589-A1354A2CBF80@me.com>
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To: dev@activemq.apache.org
archived-at: Fri, 23 Jun 2017 20:47:48 -0000

Going to sound really lame I'm just signing my up to that list so don't have=
 the mail thread to reply to it, any chance you could make some reply so the=
n I can reply :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Jun 2017, at 16:18, Clebert Suconic <clebert.suconic@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>=20
> The discussion is moving to general at incubator.apache.org
>=20
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/lists.html
>=20
> If other people is backing up this.. than I'm all up for it...
>=20
>=20
> so, if you support this, by that I mean.. if you want to get
> involved.. then it's a good time to show you interest on that thread:
>=20
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/14bdf3d93c8c6ac3ac7dd9c1d6e6146fd9099=
1581d80e8c6cfaf9540@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Clebert Suconic
> <clebert.suconic@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think it will make sense a different project...
>>=20
>> for instance: if we make journal a pluggable component there, we could
>> have a JournalQueue and JournalHashMap to support some sort of client
>> side persistence..
>>=20
>> @John: you're the man here.. how we can get this rolling?
>>=20
>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:31 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org> w=
rote:
>>> Plenty of commons projects use git... https://github.com/apache?q=3Dcomm=
ons
>>>=20
>>> John
>>>=20
>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:27 PM Clebert Suconic <clebert.suconic@gmail.c=
om>
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> One extra reason to not use commons:
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> SVN :)
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> How would we proceed?  Since this is a new project I don't think we nee=
d a
>>>> vote here at activemq right?
>>>>=20
>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:19 PM Clebert Suconic <clebert.suconic@gmail.=
com
>>>>>=20
>>>> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:16 PM John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Well, in theory you could create an Apache Messaging Components proje=
ct
>>>>>> that was made up a variety of small projects like this.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> For Kafka-JMS, I would strongly encourage you to work with the Kafka
>>>>>> Community to bring this to them first instead of creating a new proje=
ct.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Sure.
>>>>> That was just a rhetorical possibility.  Didn't mean to list exact
>>>>> projects now. Just trying to determine  in what direction this could g=
o.
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:12 PM Clebert Suconic <
>>>>>> clebert.suconic@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> There would be possibly a few smaller projects
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> For now I can see at least 3.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Pool
>>>>>>> Serialialization avro
>>>>>>> Kafka-JMS Integration.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> It would be beyond the scope of commons I think. Unless they are ok
>>>> with
>>>>>>> many small projects.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> In the past I wanted to spinof the journal and libaio separately als=
o.
>>>>>>> Could we make this in this context of a new project ?
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Iif we made it something like messaging-tools these could all fit in=

>>>> the
>>>>>>> same sub project?.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:52 PM John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org=
>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> We can definitely try an incubating project, if it makes sense for
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be an eventual TLP or subproject.  However, I was wondering if
>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>> Commons was a possible location for this project?  They tend to run=

>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> ad
>>>>>>>> hoc smallish projects with a single PMC with enough oversight to cu=
t
>>>>>>> valid
>>>>>>>> releases.  Their projects are generally smaller, utility libraries
>>>> and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> core inners of projects.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> Let me know if you want to proceed with incubation.  We'd need to
>>>> dig
>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> some mentors for the project.
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 6:48 PM Timothy Bish <tabish121@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>> On 06/09/2017 09:58 AM, Matt Pavlovich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Do we not already have precedent for something similar?  NMS is
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> sub-project of ActiveMQ but includes support for non-ActiveMQ
>>>>>> brokers.
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> The NMS bits aren't quite the same as this as the initial goal of
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> was to create a .NET based ActiveMQ client and it sort of morphed
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> from there.  There are some similarities though and in those you
>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> kind of see the problem of putting a bunch of non-ActiveMQ type
>>>> bits
>>>>>>>>> under and ActiveMQ subproject.  The NMS project has never grown
>>>>>> much of
>>>>>>>>> a community of developers to support all the various client
>>>>>>>>> implementations, there's many just two people who contribute.  As
>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> the project has mostly died, there hasn't been any releases in a
>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>> time, an some of the implementations have never seen an official
>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>> as there was nobody to manage it.  I felt for a long time like NMS=

>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> have been better served as it's own project but my desire to work
>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> .NET code is quite low so I never pushed to move it to incubator
>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> really that's what should have happened in my mind.
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Timothy Bish <tabish121@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/09/2017 09:04 AM, Clebert Suconic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yip. That's the idea.  The connection pool was mentioned at
>>>> the
>>>>>> top
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael.
>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm just thinking if we could expand the scope a bit so we
>>>> won't
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>>>>>>> incubatorb project for just two libraries.
>>>>>>>>>>> The initial scope as presented was
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> {quote}
>>>>>>>>>>> Some of these could be:
>>>>>>>>>>> PooledConnectionFactory
>>>>>>>>>>> Proposed custom serdes idea
>>>>>>>>>>> Possible future kafka integrations
>>>>>>>>>>> Etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> {quote}
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> Given you've got two concrete one sort of abstract and one etc
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>> there's some hints at there being more than just two libraries.
>>>> The
>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>> I'd prefer not to do is to create stuff that gets hidden in the
>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the ActiveMQ project which is to create a great messaging broker
>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> could be something that can stand on its own and have its own
>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that some actual thought about what you are trying to
>>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>>>>> with these proposed bits will help sort out where they should
>>>> live.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> natural thing to do is create new ActiveMQ modules are subprojects=

>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> because it's easy to do that doesn't always mean its the best
>>>> thing
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone could argue that a messaging integration library
>>>> should
>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Camel as the Messaging Integration project.
>>>>>>>>>>> Someone could argue that Camel already provides quite a bit of
>>>>>>>> this....
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> But I won't discuss much this now.  I'm about to travel and
>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>>> to answer emails next week.
>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 5:34 AM Andy Taylor <
>>>>>> andy.tayls67@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The JMS connection Pool currently in ActiveMQ could live
>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9 June 2017 at 04:52, Clebert Suconic <
>>>>>>> clebert.suconic@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As long as we can define a bigger scope.. otherwise wouldn't
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overkill to start a project for this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the name? commons-messaging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but there's already a commons project within apache...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be away for 2 weeks... Hope this to be sorted while
>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> away
>>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .please???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just kidding though.. if it's not sorted.. I may revisit
>>>> this
>>>>>>> route
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well. for now @michael use your or a new github account
>>>> until
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out where.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Timothy Bish <
>>>>>>> tabish121@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/08/2017 11:21 AM, Michael Andr=C3=A9 Pearce wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to discuss proposing a new sub project ,
>>>> named
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "activemq-extras"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is some common / generic components not specific to
>>>>>>>>> activemq5 ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> artemis, qpid jms that currently live within or without
>>>> some
>>>>>>>> extras
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would end up living in one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of these could be:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PooledConnectionFactory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Proposed custom serdes idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Possible future kafka integrations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given the scope outlined here as well as the aspiration to
>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> this a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cutting set of features that work with clients that aren't
>>>>>> part
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ActiveMQ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> land but just JMS clients in general then I'd lean towards
>>>> a
>>>>>> -1
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new subproject or building new modules into Artemis that
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> features.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion would be to go the route of an incubator
>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could work out the goals as aspirations of this new project
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> build a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community around that.  I think there would be more
>>>>>> willingness
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that aren't ActiveMQ centric developers to contribute to a
>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives on it's own given the current goal seems to be that
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that works with many different JMS client implementations,
>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't ActiveMQ....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at the incubator process (
>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/)
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it lends itself to what's being proposed here more so than
>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spinning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a subproject and starting to write some code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The idea then is these "extras" are generic in fact they
>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> released independently,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't affect the core products
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are generic meaning they can be re-used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Optional for end users to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Bish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter: @tabish121
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://timbish.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Bish
>>>>>>>>>>> twitter: @tabish121
>>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://timbish.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tim Bish
>>>>>>>>> twitter: @tabish121
>>>>>>>>> blog: http://timbish.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>> --
>>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>>>=20
>>>> --
>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> Clebert Suconic
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Clebert Suconic