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From Michael André Pearce <michael.andre.pea...@me.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] - Propose new sub-project activemq-extras
Date Fri, 23 Jun 2017 20:47:37 GMT
Going to sound really lame I'm just signing my up to that list so don't have the mail thread
to reply to it, any chance you could make some reply so then I can reply :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Jun 2017, at 16:18, Clebert Suconic <clebert.suconic@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The discussion is moving to general at incubator.apache.org
> 
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/lists.html
> 
> If other people is backing up this.. than I'm all up for it...
> 
> 
> so, if you support this, by that I mean.. if you want to get
> involved.. then it's a good time to show you interest on that thread:
> 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/14bdf3d93c8c6ac3ac7dd9c1d6e6146fd90991581d80e8c6cfaf9540@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:46 PM, Clebert Suconic
> <clebert.suconic@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think it will make sense a different project...
>> 
>> for instance: if we make journal a pluggable component there, we could
>> have a JournalQueue and JournalHashMap to support some sort of client
>> side persistence..
>> 
>> @John: you're the man here.. how we can get this rolling?
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:31 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
wrote:
>>> Plenty of commons projects use git... https://github.com/apache?q=commons
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:27 PM Clebert Suconic <clebert.suconic@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> One extra reason to not use commons:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> SVN :)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> How would we proceed?  Since this is a new project I don't think we need
a
>>>> vote here at activemq right?
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:19 PM Clebert Suconic <clebert.suconic@gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:16 PM John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well, in theory you could create an Apache Messaging Components project
>>>>>> that was made up a variety of small projects like this.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For Kafka-JMS, I would strongly encourage you to work with the Kafka
>>>>>> Community to bring this to them first instead of creating a new project.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sure.
>>>>> That was just a rhetorical possibility.  Didn't mean to list exact
>>>>> projects now. Just trying to determine  in what direction this could
go.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:12 PM Clebert Suconic <
>>>>>> clebert.suconic@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There would be possibly a few smaller projects
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For now I can see at least 3.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Pool
>>>>>>> Serialialization avro
>>>>>>> Kafka-JMS Integration.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It would be beyond the scope of commons I think. Unless they
are ok
>>>> with
>>>>>>> many small projects.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the past I wanted to spinof the journal and libaio separately
also.
>>>>>>> Could we make this in this context of a new project ?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Iif we made it something like messaging-tools these could all
fit in
>>>> the
>>>>>>> same sub project?.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 1:52 PM John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> We can definitely try an incubating project, if it makes
sense for
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be an eventual TLP or subproject.  However, I was wondering
if
>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>> Commons was a possible location for this project?  They tend
to run
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> ad
>>>>>>>> hoc smallish projects with a single PMC with enough oversight
to cut
>>>>>>> valid
>>>>>>>> releases.  Their projects are generally smaller, utility
libraries
>>>> and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> core inners of projects.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Let me know if you want to proceed with incubation.  We'd
need to
>>>> dig
>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> some mentors for the project.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 6:48 PM Timothy Bish <tabish121@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 06/09/2017 09:58 AM, Matt Pavlovich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Do we not already have precedent for something similar?
 NMS is
>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> sub-project of ActiveMQ but includes support for non-ActiveMQ
>>>>>> brokers.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The NMS bits aren't quite the same as this as the initial
goal of
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> was to create a .NET based ActiveMQ client and it sort
of morphed
>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>> from there.  There are some similarities though and in
those you
>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> kind of see the problem of putting a bunch of non-ActiveMQ
type
>>>> bits
>>>>>>>>> under and ActiveMQ subproject.  The NMS project has never
grown
>>>>>> much of
>>>>>>>>> a community of developers to support all the various
client
>>>>>>>>> implementations, there's many just two people who contribute.
 As
>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> the project has mostly died, there hasn't been any releases
in a
>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>> time, an some of the implementations have never seen
an official
>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>> as there was nobody to manage it.  I felt for a long
time like NMS
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> have been better served as it's own project but my desire
to work
>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> .NET code is quite low so I never pushed to move it to
incubator
>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> really that's what should have happened in my mind.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Timothy Bish <tabish121@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/09/2017 09:04 AM, Clebert Suconic wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yip. That's the idea.  The connection pool
was mentioned at
>>>> the
>>>>>> top
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm just thinking if we could expand the
scope a bit so we
>>>> won't
>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>>>>>>> incubatorb project for just two libraries.
>>>>>>>>>>> The initial scope as presented was
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> {quote}
>>>>>>>>>>> Some of these could be:
>>>>>>>>>>> PooledConnectionFactory
>>>>>>>>>>> Proposed custom serdes idea
>>>>>>>>>>> Possible future kafka integrations
>>>>>>>>>>> Etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> {quote}
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Given you've got two concrete one sort of abstract
and one etc
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>> there's some hints at there being more than just two
libraries.
>>>> The
>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>> I'd prefer not to do is to create stuff that gets hidden
in the
>>>>>> noise
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the ActiveMQ project which is to create a great messaging
broker
>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> could be something that can stand on its own and have
its own
>>>>>> community
>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> It seems that some actual thought about what
you are trying to
>>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>>>>> with these proposed bits will help sort out where they
should
>>>> live.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>> natural thing to do is create new ActiveMQ modules are
subprojects
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> because it's easy to do that doesn't always mean its
the best
>>>> thing
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> long run.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Someone could argue that a messaging integration
library
>>>> should
>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Camel as the Messaging Integration project.
>>>>>>>>>>> Someone could argue that Camel already provides
quite a bit of
>>>>>>>> this....
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> But I won't discuss much this now.  I'm about
to travel and
>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>>> to answer emails next week.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 5:34 AM Andy Taylor
<
>>>>>> andy.tayls67@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The JMS connection Pool currently in
ActiveMQ could live
>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9 June 2017 at 04:52, Clebert Suconic
<
>>>>>>> clebert.suconic@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As long as we can define a bigger
scope.. otherwise wouldn't
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> overkill to start a project for this?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the name? commons-messaging?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but there's already a commons project
within apache...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be away for 2 weeks... Hope
this to be sorted while
>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> away
>>>>>>>>> ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .please???
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just kidding though.. if it's not
sorted.. I may revisit
>>>> this
>>>>>>> route
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well. for now @michael use your or
a new github account
>>>> until
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out where.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Timothy
Bish <
>>>>>>> tabish121@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 06/08/2017 11:21 AM, Michael
André Pearce wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to discuss proposing
a new sub project ,
>>>> named
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "activemq-extras"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is some common / generic
components not specific to
>>>>>>>>> activemq5 ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> artemis, qpid jms that currently
live within or without
>>>> some
>>>>>>>> extras
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would end up living in one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some of these could be:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PooledConnectionFactory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Proposed custom serdes idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Possible future kafka integrations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given the scope outlined here
as well as the aspiration to
>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>> this a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cutting set of features that
work with clients that aren't
>>>>>> part
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ActiveMQ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> land but just JMS clients in
general then I'd lean towards
>>>> a
>>>>>> -1
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new subproject or building
new modules into Artemis that
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> features.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My suggestion would be to go
the route of an incubator
>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could work out the goals as aspirations
of this new project
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> build a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community around that.  I think
there would be more
>>>>>> willingness
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that aren't ActiveMQ centric
developers to contribute to a
>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lives on it's own given the current
goal seems to be that
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that works with many different
JMS client implementations,
>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't ActiveMQ....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a look at the incubator
process (
>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/)
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it lends itself to what's being
proposed here more so than
>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spinning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a subproject and starting to
write some code.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The idea then is these "extras"
are generic in fact they
>>>>>> can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> released independently,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't affect the core products
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are generic meaning they
can be re-used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Optional for end users to
use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Bish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter: @tabish121
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://timbish.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Tim Bish
>>>>>>>>>>> twitter: @tabish121
>>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://timbish.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Tim Bish
>>>>>>>>> twitter: @tabish121
>>>>>>>>> blog: http://timbish.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Clebert Suconic
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Clebert Suconic

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