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From Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Apache Artemis 1.2.0
Date Thu, 24 Dec 2015 00:25:37 GMT

> On Dec 23, 2015, at 6:34 PM, Hiram Chirino <hiram@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
> 
> -1 that seems silly. There is no legal reason to do that and it gives our
> users a worse experience out of the box.

Giving our users the information they would need to make it perform better is giving them
a worse experience?

Dan



> 
> On Wednesday, December 23, 2015, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> +1 for a prompt on broker creation.
>> 
>> It could even include a prompt, say "No libaio detected, to make your
>> Artemis server faster please install libaio and {do necessary step to
>> enable in broker}" but if it is installed, just prompt/given flag.
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 5:07 PM Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 23, 2015, at 4:55 PM, Andy Taylor <andy.tayls67@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>> I Guess it depends on what they mean by enabled. If the user has to
>>>> explicitly install it then to me it's optional. Saying that if it's
>>>> installed by default on the OS you could argue the opposite.
>>> 
>>> The issue with the is that the user may not even know if they have it
>>> installed or not.    For example, on my two gentoo linux boxes, one has
>> it
>>> installed and one doesn’t.   I have no idea why the one that has it
>>> installed has it.   With the package management and such, something I
>>> installed there some time in the past must have caused it to install.
>>> (likely mysql)
>>> 
>>>> We could change the cli to prompt for a choice at create time.
>>> 
>>> That would certainly work.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 23 Dec 2015 21:41 Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org <javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 23, 2015, at 4:07 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org
>> <javascript:;>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are you referring to the bin or src distribution?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Kind of both…
>>>>> 
>>>>> By removing the binary from the src distribution, that covers that
>> case.
>>>>> The user would have to cd into the appropriate directory and
>> explicitly
>>>>> run the “make” or whatever to build the binary.   It’s an explicit
>>> choice
>>>>> they make.   Thus, I’m completely OK with that now.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The bin distribution is still an issue.   If the default was to not
>> use
>>>>> the libaio at all unless the user either edited a config file to
>> enable
>>> it
>>>>> or pass a command line flag or similar to take explicit action, I’d
be
>>> OK
>>>>> there as well.     The new wording on the legal pages is completely
>>>>> confusing.  The original suggested wording in:
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-54
>>>>> makes so much more sense:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "However, projects may use LGPL licensed works in optional features
>> that
>>>>> are not enabled by default.”
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 4:05 PM Daniel Kulp <dkulp@apache.org
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Question: If I grab Artemis 1.1.0 tarbal/zip and start up the
broker
>>>>> “out
>>>>>>> of the box”, does it use libaio or not?  If I specifically
have to
>>>>>>> configure something (pass a flag, edit a config file, etc…)
to
>> enable
>>>>> use
>>>>>>> if the LGPL library, then fine.    However, if it’s something
that
>>>>> occurs
>>>>>>> completely automatically without the user even knowing that it’s
>>>>> occurring,
>>>>>>> then I have a major problem with it.  It needs to be something
that
>>> the
>>>>>>> user has to explicitly CHOOSE to use.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 23, 2015, at 2:02 PM, Clebert Suconic <
>>>>> clebert.suconic@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> also, there has also been questions about it during the donation
>>>>>>>> process.. licenses reviewed.. etc.. so I don't think we need
to
>> open
>>> a
>>>>>>>> new discussions over this. the binary inclusion on the source
was
>>>>>>>> something that was fixed now.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The dependency on libaio on the C code is through through
dynamic
>>>>>>>> linked library, and is the same as any C code depending on
libc or
>>>>>>>> gcc.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Clebert Suconic
>>>>>>>> <clebert.suconic@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 1:55 PM, John D. Ament <
>>> johndament@apache.org <javascript:;>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Just wondering, does anyone plan to raise the LGPL
question w/
>>> legal
>>>>>>>>>> discuss?  If we're waiting for the new year to do
the next
>> release,
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be good to at least start the discussion.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We had such discussion long ago with legal. I couldn't
find that
>>> email
>>>>>>>>> on my inbox but we specifically asked questions about
it. We were
>> ok
>>>>>>>>> as I remember. Maybe someone else (Martyn?) will have
it on their
>>>>>>>>> inboxes. For that reason I don't want to go over the
same issue we
>>> had
>>>>>>>>> asked before.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The use of libaio is optional anyways and the system
works as
>>>>>>>>> expected. what also covers other questions we had here
on this
>>> thread.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>> dkulp@apache.org <javascript:;> - http://dankulp.com/blog
>>>>>>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Daniel Kulp
>>>>> dkulp@apache.org <javascript:;> - http://dankulp.com/blog
>>>>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Daniel Kulp
>>> dkulp@apache.org <javascript:;> - http://dankulp.com/blog
>>> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Hiram Chirino
> Engineering | Red Hat, Inc.
> hchirino@redhat.com | fusesource.com | redhat.com
> skype: hiramchirino | twitter: @hiramchirino

-- 
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com


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