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From Clebert Suconic <clebert.suco...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Special Board Report
Date Tue, 21 Apr 2015 01:06:09 GMT
> Why not be open about it, advocate for it, work for it and build consensus and acceptance
instead of putting everybody in front of a 'take it or leave it' choice.

Can you be more specific?

first I'm not sure where I have not been open about anything I'm
doing... I have a JIRA for every commit I make, and I have been more
vocal about everything I do actually...

It seems that you are referring to things that happened long ago
before I even joined the ASF. if that's the case I have no control
over what happened in the past, and I would appreciate if I was judged
by my own mistakes on that case (at least I would be able to amend my
own mistakes).



On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 8:51 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hzbarcea@gmail.com> wrote:
> Look Hiram, there already is consensus around changing the name to a code
> name. In my opinion, still not enough.
>
> The plan to merge HornetQ into ActiveMQ didn't bother me either, I voted for
> it in the beginning. What bothers me a lot, is what I perceive as a sneaky
> way to go about it. Why not be open about it, advocate for it, work for it
> and build consensus and acceptance instead of putting everybody in front of
> a 'take it or leave it' choice. That's what rubbed me the wrong way. That's
> really not like the ASF I know. That's why I made a conscious decision to be
> vocal about it and, in my mind, do my best to protect this community. This
> may cost me some personal relations, with people like you who are really
> extremely intelligent and still do respect (hopefully not if you can
> distinguish between the person and the ideas). And you Hiram, in particular,
> were very civil in expressing your different views, which I, personally,
> highly appreciate.
>
> Maybe I am wrong, maybe not, who knows...
> Hadrian
>
>
>
>
> On 04/20/2015 08:30 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps this just means your failing to build a consensus around your
>> view point?
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hzbarcea@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Except that the discussion was started weeks ago and questions are
>>> constantly ignored.
>>>
>>> Hadrian
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/20/2015 07:55 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hzbarcea@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Uhm, what were we doing for the past 2 weeks? On two lists, multiple
>>>>> threads?
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume you are aware of my recommendation to have hornetq grow
>>>>> independently in the incubator. That proposal was rejected, but no
>>>>> reason
>>>>> given besides that the RH engineers would have to do the work twice.
My
>>>>> request was to include that in the report (or whatever other reason
>>>>> might
>>>>> exist). The way it looks is that Fuse/RH/(the Damarillo group), anyway
>>>>> you
>>>>> want to describe that faction is dead set on replacing the existing
>>>>> ActiveMQ
>>>>> with HornetQ (or whatever code name) in version 6 or 10. By keeping
>>>>> HornetQ
>>>>> under the ActiveMQ PMC influence its future will be heavily influenced
>>>>> by
>>>>> the already biased PMC and at the same time hide the lack of diversity
>>>>> in
>>>>> HornetQ. In the incubator, HornetQ will have the opportunity and
>>>>> freedom
>>>>> to
>>>>> grow in any direction and build a diverse community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We've had lots folks from different companies agree with the direction
>>>> that code contribution is going in.  The fact that pin it on
>>>> 'Fuse/RH/(the Damarillo group)' is very disingenuous and I think a
>>>> poisonous position to take.  I guess we just need to agree to disagree
>>>> on this point.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since there is all this concern about the viral nature of the plan, why
>>>>> not
>>>>> allow HornetQ to take its course, build more diversity in the ActiveMQ
>>>>> community (actually both) and influence it based on technical merits
>>>>> instead
>>>>> of abundance of votes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please start a discussion thread with your proposal and lets see if
>>>> consensus can be built around it.  This is how it's normally done.
>>>> You can't just complain that you don't agree with how things are going
>>>> and then cry that some evil conspiracy is underway.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does that clarify my request?
>>>>> Hadrian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 04/20/2015 05:51 PM, Bruce Snyder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed, we need to get this report published/submitted, so time is
off
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> essence here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hadrian, you have raised some points that you would like to have
>>>>>> included
>>>>>> in the report, but nobody can read your mind. Please add your points
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> report so that others can see them and discuss them ASAP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Hiram Chirino
>>>>>> <hiram@hiramchirino.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So we are running into a time crunch here.  I'm hoping all the
PMC
>>>>>>> members will pitch in and apply any edits to the report they
deem
>>>>>>> necessary.  Many thanks to those who have helped out.  Seems
like
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> folks are still now happy with it, so that's why have held off
in
>>>>>>> sending it so that they get a chance to add their input.  But
your
>>>>>>> right, I do have to send this in before the 22nd so really today
is
>>>>>>> the last day I can hold off so that I can send it on the 21st
so that
>>>>>>> the board has at least 24 hours to review before their meeting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hzbarcea@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One more thing. It's the responsibility of the PMC chair
to provide
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> timely
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> report to the board. It's entirely his choice how he wants
to go
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> what he decides to include and what to leave out. The report
should
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> published in a timely manner though, so that comments (usually
from
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> board) could be addressed before the meeting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Hadrian
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 04/20/2015 05:23 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ok so, then it sounds like your ok with the report the
way it is
>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea
>>>>>>>>> <hzbarcea@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have nothing to write. There were some claims made
that were not
>>>>>>>>>> substantiate. My request was for the party that made
the claims to
>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>> an explanation.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I cannot explain somebody else's point of view. I
can explain my
>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> anybody requires it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Hadrian
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 04/20/2015 02:39 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hadrian, please write up what you want to include
in the board
>>>>>>>>>>> report
>>>>>>>>>>> that way the rest of the PMC can review.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Hadrian Zbarcea
>>>>>>>>>>> <hzbarcea@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> First, the report is late. Second, I don't
think it addresses
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Third, I made a request to please include
in the report an
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> explanation
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> why hornetq moving to the incubator is a
non-starter for Fuse
>>>>>>>>>>>> crowd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> very frustrating that requests get ignored.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hadrian
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/20/2015 02:16 PM, Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are they any other updates folks want
to make to this report?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> apply your updates soon.  The board meets
on the 22nd and I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> submit the report on the 21st at the
latest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Hiram
Chirino
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <hiram@hiramchirino.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys.  The board requested a report
this month and had some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific questions around the hornetq
code donation.  I've put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first cut a report on the Wiki at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=55155578
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully we can finish off the code
donation naming vote soon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> report that too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hiram Chirino
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Engineering | Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hchirino@redhat.com | fusesource.com
| redhat.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skype: hiramchirino | twitter: @hiramchirino
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Hiram Chirino
>>>>>>> Engineering | Red Hat, Inc.
>>>>>>> hchirino@redhat.com | fusesource.com | redhat.com
>>>>>>> skype: hiramchirino | twitter: @hiramchirino
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
Clebert Suconic
http://community.jboss.org/people/clebert.suconic@jboss.com
http://clebertsuconic.blogspot.com

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