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From jgenender <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Move the ActiveMQ web-console to a sub-project.
Date Fri, 31 Jan 2014 17:09:16 GMT
Now need for ad hominem. ;-)  Pet the kitty a wee bit more and take
3 deep breaths. ;-)

I think there seems to be a major misunderstanding here, particularly on
your part.

No...Apache is not the center of the universe.  No Apache is not the best
place for all projects.  It has its warts and it has its downsides,
bureaucracy, rules and regulations, and that doesn't work for everyone.  Not
every project is a good fit for Apache. 

To be very very clear, I never stated that you must/should bring your project into Apache.  I never told you how to run your project. 
That project is yours and I have no basis, nor have I made comments on your
project, other than some compliments. i.e. is a neat/interesting
technology, etc etc.

I *did* say that the pimping of that project at Apache in its current form
that clearly exposes a marketing angle for your host company was not fair to
the Apache communities, be it Camel, AMQ, Karaf, [put Apache project du jour
here].  I also said that it should be skinned at AMQ so that it fits in more
with a project's look and feel.  I also advocated that you guys may want to
provide skinning as it would likely increase your adoption and acceptance of
it in many projects, not just Apache.  Yeah, those were some big irritating
and offensive attacks!  Sorry about that James, sometimes I really need to
watch those nasty comments! ;-)

You made your anti-Apache sentiments abundantly clear.  That's fine.  But
then I have to ask you, why do you continue to develop here?  If I had to
develop in a locale that was misery to me, I'd fork the darned thing and be
done with it.  Nah... you don't have to answer that since my question is a
bit rhetorical as we already know the answer to that...

James Strachan-2 wrote
> On 30 January 2014 23:42, jgenender &lt;

> jgenender@

> &gt; wrote:
>> rajdavies wrote
>> > Apache isn't exactly the best place for innovation. Just look at this
>> > whole thread, imagine trying to create a UI based around consensus - it
>> > wouldn't happen - so it doesn't seem odd to me that the ASF wouldn't be
>> > there first choice.
>> Can you please expound on why Apache is not exactly the best place for
>> innovation?
> I think this thread is a perfect example really. Just re-read the mails
> above if anyone needs more proof.
> A vote starts to move some old crusty code for a pretty crappy console
> (which the main developers and maintainers have kinda given up on) to a
> different directory in subversion on a different release cycle; so a
> community can either form around it or it can eventually be moved to the
> Attic. Queue lots of the usual attacks on Red Hat folks from the usual
> suspects from Talend & Savoir who every chance they get spew bile,
> personal
> attacks, conspiracy theories, question our integrity, professionalism and
> motives. Its gone way beyond being irritating and offensive really; its
> now
> becoming downright hilarious. You go guys! Keep up the amazing work, am
> sure ActiveMQ developers and users are really loving this stuff!
> In comparison - we've had no bullshit at all on github. Its a breath of
> fresh air, amazing tooling and its great fun. There's a very low barrier
> to
> entry and we seem to already have got more contributions at hawtio from
> folks than we've ever got for the ActiveMQ web console.
> Incidentally I don't know if you've noticed; Apache isn't the centre of
> the
> universe. There's some amazing opens source going on elsewhere - mostly on
> github - e.g. docker, angularjs and vertx to name but 3 off the top of my
> head are huge game changers.
> Anyway keep the personal attacks coming Talend & Savoir dudes; it just
> keeps getting funnier!
> I'm off to stroke my white cat...
> -- 
> James
> -------
> Red Hat
> Email: 

> jstracha@

> Web:
> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews
> Blog:
> Open Source Integration

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