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From "Raul Kripalani (JIRA)" <>
Subject [jira] [Commented] (AMQ-4465) Rethink replayWhenNoConsumers solution
Date Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:06:18 GMT


Raul Kripalani commented on AMQ-4465:

At the risk of sparking up an entire different discussion – the real culprit of all this
is the store-and-forward technique, in my humble opinion. I think the AMQ model could be essentially
flawed for highly dynamic, elastic or cloud-like scenarios, where consumers and producers
can appear anywhere in the messaging fabric, and AMQ instances are provisioned and de-provisioned
on the fly.

The replayWhenNoConsumers was a solution to bounce messages freely across the cluster. But
really what we need is multiple ACTIVE brokers to see a single view of reality, i.e. a shared
knowledge about what messages exist and are pending to be delivered, what consumers are alive
and where, etc: a messaging cloud.

In the era of big data and huge in-memory caches, this seems perfectly doable. I'd advocate
for a solution such that:

- ACTIVE brokers can connect to a single cache/db, no more exclusivity or master locks.
- Reads and writes must be atomic or transactional, but blazing fast in both cases.
- All instances see all messages and consumers, but are responsible for only local consumers.
They decide when to pick a message from the cache and push it to a consumer.
- May be embeddable, so that you don't have to start a separate process to use AMQ OOTB.
- Can be persistent/non-persistent.

Many NoSQL databases or Java-based distributed cache technologies exist which could fulfill
these requirements (probably with some adaptations).
> Rethink replayWhenNoConsumers solution
> --------------------------------------
>                 Key: AMQ-4465
>                 URL:
>             Project: ActiveMQ
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>          Components: Broker
>    Affects Versions: 5.8.0
>            Reporter: Torsten Mielke
> I would like to start a discussion about the way we allow messages to be replayed back
to the original broker in a broker network, i.e. setting replayWhenNoConsumers=true.
> This discussion is based on the blog post 
> but I will outline the full story here again. 
> Consider a network of two brokers A and B. 
> Broker A has a producer that sends one msg to queue Broker B has a consumer
connected so the msg is transferred to broker B. Lets assume the consumer disconnects from
B *before* it consumes the msg and reconnects to broker A. If broker B has replayWhenNoConsumers=true,
the message will be replayed back to broker A. 
> If that replay happens in a short time frame, the cursor will mark the replayed msgs
as a duplicate and won't dispatch it. To overcome this, one needs to set enableAudit=false
on the policyEntry for the destination. 
> This has a consequence as it disables duplicate detection in the cursor. External JMS
producers will still be blocked from sending duplicates thanks to the duplicate detection
built into the persistence adapter. 
> However you can still get duplicate messages over the network bridge now. With enableAudit=false
these duplicates will be happily added to the cursor now. If the same consumer receives the
duplicate message, it will likely detect the duplicate. However if the duplicate message is
dispatched to a different consumer, it won't be detected but will be processed by the application.
> For many use cases its important not to receive duplicate messages so the above setup
replayWhenNoConsumers=true and enableAudit=false becomes a problem.
> There is the additional option of specifying auditNetworkProducers="true" on the transport
connector but that's very likely going to have consequences as well. With auditNetworkProducers="true"
we will now detect duplicates over the network bridge, so if there is a network glitch while
the message is replayed back on the bridge to broker A and broker B tries to resend the message
again, it will be detected as a duplicate on broker A. This is good.
> However lets assume the consumer now disconnects from broker A *after* the message was
replayed back from broker B to broker A but *before* the consumer actually received the message.
The consumer then reconnects to broker B again. 
> The replayed message is on broker A now. Broker B registers a new demand for this message
(due to the consumer reconnecting) and broker A will pass on the message to broker B again.
However due to auditNetworkProducers="true" broker B will treat the resent message as a duplicate
and very likely not accept it (or even worse simply drop the message - not sure how exactly
it will behave). 
> So the message is stuck again and won't be dispatched to the consumer on broker B. 
> The networkTTL setting will further have an effect on this scenario and so will have
other broker topologies like a full mesh.
> It seems to me that 
> - When allowing replayWhenNoConsumers=true you may receive duplicate messages unless
you also set auditNetworkProducers="true" which has consequences as well.
> - If consumers are reconnecting to a different broker each time that you may end up with
msgs stuck on a broker that won't get dispatched. 
> - Ideally you want sticky consumers, i.e. they reconnect to the same broker if possible
in order to avoid replaying back messages. This implies that you don't want to use randomize=true
on failover urls. I don't think we recommend this in any docs.
> - The network ttl will potentially never be high enough and the message may be stuck
on a particular broker as the consumer may have reconnected to another broker in the network.
> I am sure there are more sides to this discussion. I just wanted to capture what gtully
and I found when discussing this problem. 

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