Reply-To: activemq-dev@geronimo.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list activemq-commits@geronimo.apache.org Received: (qmail 46117 invoked by uid 99); 1 Aug 2006 15:27:43 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 08:27:43 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-9.4 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [140.211.166.113] (HELO eris.apache.org) (140.211.166.113) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 01 Aug 2006 08:27:33 -0700 Received: by eris.apache.org (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 8712B1A9827; Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:26:46 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: svn commit: r427611 [6/11] - in /incubator/activemq/site: ./ cimero-editor.data/ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:26:00 -0000 To: activemq-commits@geronimo.apache.org From: chirino@apache.org X-Mailer: svnmailer-1.0.8 Message-Id: <20060801152646.8712B1A9827@eris.apache.org> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N Modified: incubator/activemq/site/news.html URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/activemq/site/news.html?rev=427611&r1=427610&r2=427611&view=diff ============================================================================== --- incubator/activemq/site/news.html (original) +++ incubator/activemq/site/news.html Tue Aug 1 08:25:47 2006 @@ -186,12 +186,14 @@

@@ -258,7 +260,7 @@

GBuild

XSD

Xml Reference

@@ -588,6 +590,1110 @@ + Tuesday, August 1, first meeting (created) + +
+ +

+ News + created by Andrea Aime (andrea.aime@aliceposta.it) on Aug 01, 2006 03:11 +

So lets put together an agenda ....
+[9.14.30] Jody Garnett scrive:1) PSC forming ... we need to read and respond to Chris's email ... and then vote
+[9.14.42] Jody Garnett scrive:2) GeoServer 1.4.0 rollout - we are stuck behind geotools
+[9.15.01] Jody Garnett scrive:3) GeoServer 1.4.x w/ WCS - we are stuck behind geoapi
+[9.15.08] Jody Garnett scrive:anybody else got one
+[9.15.56] Andrea Aime scrive:4) Automated code formatting? (but please vote on the list)
+[9.16.14] Rob Atkinson scrive:axis order from geotools - do we really know how it will impact geoserver?
+[9.16.29] Clint Lewis scrive:Jody can add Alessio to the other window
+[9.16.36] * Jody Garnett aggiunto Alessio Fabiani a questa chat
+[9.16.51] Jody Garnett scrive:(um can only I add people?)
+[9.17.14] Andrea Aime scrive:Rob, maybe this is better discussed on the ml, or as point 5) ?
+[9.17.24] Andrea Aime scrive:(nope,everybody can)
+[9.17.25] Jody Garnett scrive:okay lets start with brent's usual 0) what are people up to
+[9.17.34] Alessio Fabiani scrive:hi
+[9.18.00] Andrea Aime scrive:Me, nothing in particular, giving my best Sundays to the geotools build system lately
+[9.18.07] Jody Garnett scrive:Jody - trying to put together a geoserver based project (still). Will try and keep up with PSC this week.
+[9.18.16] Clint Lewis scrive:Nothing on my side
+[9.18.43] Alessio Fabiani scrive:I'm finishing Grib plugin and building a tool for mosaics
+[9.19.10] Andrea Aime scrive:A tool? A graphical one to build a mosaic out of a monolithic image?
+[9.19.32] Alessio Fabiani scrive:no no, just a command line utility to build the index shapefile
+[9.19.51] Andrea Aime scrive:Ah, so you already got to have the set of tiles done?
+[9.19.59] Alessio Fabiani scrive:yes
+[9.20.14] * Clint Lewis aggiunto Gerhard Goosen a questa chat
+[9.20.22] Andrea Aime scrive:Hum, I have some 800MB images here, would be nice to have something to mosaic them
+[9.20.24] * Jody Garnett ha modificato l'argomento della chat in "GeoServer 1) PSC 2) 1.4.0 3) trunk 4) code format 5) axis order"
+[9.20.36] Jody Garnett scrive:he he - okay moving on ...
+[9.20.38] Alessio Fabiani scrive:
+[9.20.46] Jody Garnett scrive:Q: has everyone had a chance to review chris's email?
+[9.20.58] Rob Atkinson scrive:Aye
+[9.21.05] Jody Garnett scrive:I have, but have not reviewed his changes to the documents. So I am not read to vote in this meeting....
+[9.21.25] Andrea Aime scrive:Nope
+[9.21.38] Andrea Aime scrive:Just saw it now
+[9.21.41] Jody Garnett scrive:so perhaps we want to go through his pages together, or take this to the mailing list for careful thought. We have one week to provide feedback last I checked)
+[9.21.52] Clint Lewis scrive:r u talking about "GSIP #1 - Project Steering Committee."
+[9.21.55] Jody Garnett scrive:yes.
+[9.22.07] Andrea Aime scrive:Better take time to read it I'd say
+[9.22.32] Jody Garnett scrive:(guys I need to step out, please continue without me ... Rob would you take care of keeping the meeting churning through the agenda please?)
+[9.23.10] Rob Atkinson scrive:OK
+[9.23.25] Clint Lewis scrive:Jody stepped out.. if we get stuck I will drag him back..
+[9.23.34] Clint Lewis scrive:have his permission
+[9.23.39] Rob Atkinson scrive:I think we have enough to suggest we dont vote now -any comments to share now?
+[9.23.51] Andrea Aime scrive:Not at the moment, no
+[9.24.26] Rob Atkinson scrive:OK 2) tell us about 1.4.0 release
+[9.24.53] Andrea Aime scrive:I think we are stuck for the simple reason 2.2.0 is not out
+[9.25.11] Andrea Aime scrive:And we'll have to fix mappane before that release can go
+[9.25.21] Andrea Aime scrive:(maybe also the wfs client)
+[9.25.36] Andrea Aime scrive:The first one is something we deserve to users since we removed the old map pane
+[9.25.50] Andrea Aime scrive:And to Adrian which is taking on his shoulder the documentation effort
+[9.27.12] Andrea Aime scrive:That's all more or less
+[9.27.38] Andrea Aime scrive:Ah, we also have Justin stuck with some documentation work for 1.4.0 afaik
+[9.27.52] Rob Atkinson scrive:OK - so there is a functionally complete and tested 1.4, and its simply a policy thing that we dont release without the goetools docs?
+[9.28.07] Andrea Aime scrive:We don't release without our docs and a geotools release
+[9.28.23] Andrea Aime scrive:At the moment we are building against 2.2.x-RC5-snapshot
+[9.28.46] Rob Atkinson scrive:OK - some doco requirements for geoserver itself. Sticking point here?
+[9.28.54] Andrea Aime scrive:I do think it's just common sense to avoid releasing against unfinished peer libraries
+[9.29.11] Andrea Aime scrive:You have to ask Justin, I don't really know what's missing
+[9.29.25] Andrea Aime scrive:There are some JIRA issues filed against 1.4.0 thought, doc related
+[9.29.37] Rob Atkinson scrive:OK - what needs discussing here to progress things?
+[9.30.09] Clint Lewis scrive:can we go through those issues
+[9.30.12] Andrea Aime scrive:Well, I do think someone may want to go and fix mappane (will do, but allow me to do that during the weekend)
+[9.30.24] Clint Lewis scrive:some of them are just pending Justin's ok
+[9.30.32] Clint Lewis scrive:approval
+[9.30.54] Andrea Aime scrive:Ok, so lets write some mail to Justin asking about it and offering our help?
+[9.31.43] Andrea Aime scrive:Ok, going to write that email.
+[9.31.45] Andrea Aime scrive:Next topic?
+[9.32.02] Clint Lewis scrive:3) Trunk
+[9.32.31] Rob Atkinson scrive:Suggestion - should we get the geotools release and help needed status provided as a formal input to these meetings so we can deal with it more efficiently? I release its the same people
+[9.33.19] Andrea Aime scrive:Not sure I understand
+[9.34.02] Alessio Fabiani scrive:In the trunk relase of GeoServer there are some bugs which I have corrected in the wcs one
+[9.34.27] Andrea Aime scrive:Alessio, the policy should be that every time you fix a bug in a branch you should fix it in the trunk as well
+[9.34.31] Andrea Aime scrive:I know it's painful
+[9.34.56] Andrea Aime scrive:But we risk releasing with known bugs otherwise
+[9.35.05] Alessio Fabiani scrive:ok, so if you agree I can correct rhose bugs in the trunk too
+[9.36.04] Rob Atkinson scrive:The plan is to bring WCS home to trunk soon, then once it works well enough to kick that out as a 1.5 release ?
+[9.36.10] Alessio Fabiani scrive:the bugs are about the incomplete porting of the old release
+[9.36.14] Andrea Aime scrive:If you want to add cake topping too, open a JIRA bugs about them so that we can have them in the changelog
+[9.36.40] Andrea Aime scrive:Rob, the problem is that we will have to wait a gt2 2.3 release
+[9.36.55] Andrea Aime scrive:Which in turn is stuck because it's building against geoapi trunk
+[9.37.04] Alessio Fabiani scrive:for example the getInternal method was used to retrieve resources but this method returns null objects and somthing like this
+[9.37.17] Andrea Aime scrive:So the proper order is: fix geoapi and release it
+[9.37.43] Andrea Aime scrive:Fix geotools and have geoserver hammer it a bit (lots of changes, so likeliness of having bugs around)
+[9.37.49] Andrea Aime scrive:Release geotools, release geoserver
+[9.37.54] Andrea Aime scrive:That will take quite some time
+[9.38.32] Andrea Aime scrive:The problem is that gt2 trunk has been abandoned for quite some time and scary things happened in the meantime
+[9.38.55] Andrea Aime scrive:We are trying to recover and get things straight again, but it's not like pushing a button and calling it done
+[9.39.39] Andrea Aime scrive:Did I answer you question Rob? (althougth maybe with something not pleasing to hear?)
+[9.39.43] Rob Atkinson scrive:The issue is to minimise effort wasted on branches that could be making the trunk more robust.
+[9.40.10] Andrea Aime scrive:Well, 1.4.x+wcs will be the next trunk
+[9.40.13] Alessio Fabiani scrive:my branch is always aligned with trunk ...
+[9.40.20] Andrea Aime scrive:And I think there's agreement on that
+[9.40.35] Andrea Aime scrive:On geotools land, we'll first release 2.3 and then merge the FM branch
+[9.40.57] Andrea Aime scrive:So I think this branch-happy season will come to an end before the end of the year
+[9.41.21] Andrea Aime scrive:Geoserver is now in a position where branching is no more needed that much hopefully
+[9.41.43] Alessio Fabiani scrive:however I will open some JIRA tasks for the problems I have found and I will fix the bugs I can
+[9.41.50] Rob Atkinson scrive:OK - so 2.2. is not yet released - whats the prognosis for 2.3 ?
+[9.42.10] Andrea Aime scrive:2.2 can be released in 1-2 weeks I think
+[9.42.23] simboss18830 scrive:morning all
+[9.42.23] Alessio Fabiani scrive:2.3 is now the geotools trunk
+[9.42.30] Andrea Aime scrive:2.3, hah, couple of months?
+[9.42.44] Rob Atkinson scrive:I suppose one driver will be GML 3 support for WFS 1.1 - this is due for sept? Whats the planned geoserver release for this?
+[9.42.49] Andrea Aime scrive:It all depends on how fast we can get a damned geoapi 2.1 release
+[9.43.20] Andrea Aime scrive:Rob, I'm not up to date on that one?
+[9.43.41] Andrea Aime scrive:Afaik people who have tried on GML 3 run away in despair?
+[9.43.58] Rob Atkinson scrive:Its the OWS 4 WFS 1.1 reference implementation - need someone from TOPP on that.
+[9.44.32] Andrea Aime scrive:Better leave the question in the logs and have the second meeting answer that one then
+[9.44.34] Gabriel Roldán scrive:I guess topp is engaged to only provide simple profile support
+[9.44.36] Rob Atkinson scrive:To avoid version fatigue, we should maybe aim for 1.5 to have WCS + 2.3 + WFS 1.1
+[9.45.08] Andrea Aime scrive:Hmm.... two major changes in one release... not sure I like it from a stability standpoint
+[9.45.34] Andrea Aime scrive:Unless WFS1.1 can be a new module and we can keep 1.0 kicking around and stable
+[9.45.37] Rob Atkinson scrive:Simple Featuires Level 1 profile = complex features. Level 2 = FM
+[9.46.13] Andrea Aime scrive:Rob, let's have TOPP people answer that one
+[9.46.30] Andrea Aime scrive:And/or have a formal PSC vote on the mailing list
+[9.46.34] Rob Atkinson scrive:We have several stability issues - too many versions means reduced testing effort.
+[9.46.57] Andrea Aime scrive:But first I want to hear who is going to implement GML3 and what are his timelines
+[9.47.39] Andrea Aime scrive:Rob, if this is a concern we really have to improve/extend our automated testing procedures
+[9.47.51] Andrea Aime scrive:Anyway, the alloted hour is going away... next topic?
+[9.47.52] Gabriel Roldán scrive:I don't know of anyone that plans to do that in the short term
+[9.47.52] Gabriel Roldán scrive:sigh
+[9.48.39] Andrea Aime scrive:Guys, 10 minutes left. We call it a day or we try to face at least 4)?
+[9.48.52] Rob Atkinson scrive:WFS 1.1 requires GML 3.1.1 as the normative response format. Only needs simple geometries though
+[9.49.23] Rob Atkinson scrive:OK - 4) automated code formatting
+[9.49.29] Andrea Aime scrive:Rob, nobody here is going to work on GML3, so this a topic for the second meeting
+[9.49.50] Rob Atkinson scrive:I suggest a proposal along the lines of GSIP - this will affect many developers
+[9.50.06] Andrea Aime scrive:Yes, I do agree
+[9.50.09] Gabriel Roldán scrive:sure
+[9.50.24] Gabriel Roldán scrive:just talk to chris and justing first
+[9.50.35] Gabriel Roldán scrive:to see what they have planned for OWS4
+[9.50.42] Gabriel Roldán scrive:and what not
+[9.50.47] Andrea Aime scrive:Ok, I'll try to setup a proposal then
+[9.50.53] Rob Atkinson scrive:Sorry - I though we'd moved on to 4)
+[9.50.55] Andrea Aime scrive:And send it to the ml/wiki
+[9.51.26] Andrea Aime scrive:Heh, I do think we already finished 4), unless someone has a straigh -1 against automated formatting
+[9.51.49] Andrea Aime scrive:(aka, don't want to take time and write a proposal if someone has strong points against it)
+[9.51.51] Gabriel Roldán scrive:(Rob, its just me that I'm still sleepy, sorry)
+[9.52.40] Andrea Aime scrive:Ok, quick peek into 5)?
+[9.53.00] Rob Atkinson scrive:A proposal wont be long, and we'll need to specify the automation procedure anyway so people can follow it. Make it a GSIP
+[9.53.10] Andrea Aime scrive:Ok
+[9.53.40] Rob Atkinson scrive:5) Axis order.
+[9.54.09] Rob Atkinson scrive:Personally I'm scared of this derailing interoperability big time.
+[9.54.14] Andrea Aime scrive:Ok, short answer is, 1.4 will work only if the original data is in long/lat axis order
+[9.54.25] Andrea Aime scrive:as 1.3 does as well
+[9.54.42] Alessio Fabiani scrive:the axis order should be solved with new GeoTools code
+[9.54.49] Rob Atkinson scrive:Too much crazy stuff (like if you use a urn id for CRS it gets intepreted differently to EPSG:XXXX)
+[9.55.10] Andrea Aime scrive:urn?
+[9.55.34] simboss18830 scrive:the newly proposed standard
+[9.55.35] Rob Atkinson scrive:I sent an email - not seen it yet - about proper separation of concerns. Discussion for geotools, but do we need to think about impact?
+[9.55.38] simboss18830 scrive:for managing crs
+[9.55.47] Alessio Fabiani scrive:you can specify how to decode the EPSG:XX by using hints or specific CRSFactories
+[9.55.51] simboss18830 scrive:is using complex and long urn
+[9.56.10] Andrea Aime scrive:Uniform Resource N????
+[9.56.14] simboss18830 scrive:name
+[9.56.18] Andrea Aime scrive:Ah
+[9.56.27] simboss18830 scrive:let me grab an examle
+[9.56.43] simboss18830 scrive:urn:ogc:def:crs:EPSG:6.0:4277
+[9.56.58] Rob Atkinson scrive:Its the fact that different identifier forms are supposed to be handled differently ! I dont believe it will happen.
+[9.56.58] Alessio Fabiani scrive:urn means that specifing the name of a rescource you don't have to specify its location (path)
+[9.56.58] Andrea Aime scrive:Ah, I see. With the authority included
+[9.57.20] simboss18830 scrive:yeah
+[9.57.22] simboss18830 scrive:sooner or later
+[9.57.34] Rob Atkinson scrive:WMS 1.3 basically never got deployed because it changed CRS order, everyone reckoned WMS 1.1 was good enough...
+[9.57.35] simboss18830 scrive:we will have to write a referencing authority
+[9.57.38] simboss18830 scrive:for this urn based form
+[9.58.03] Andrea Aime scrive:A kind of wrapper that queries the authorities we do have now?
+[9.58.44] simboss18830 scrive:more or less
+[9.58.49] simboss18830 scrive:but Martin is the guru
+[9.58.54] simboss18830 scrive:as well as jody
+[9.59.18] simboss18830 scrive:did anybody read the extra IRC about axes order from yesterday evening?
+[10.00.08] Andrea Aime scrive:(was there)
+[10.00.16] Rob Atkinson scrive:For now, I suggest we go away and think about what the users are going to do in the face of this. We cant solve now, but there will be a requirement at some point to make a decision about support for standards as written, vs whatever emerges as practice.
+[10.00.28] Andrea Aime scrive:Ok
+[10.00.33] Andrea Aime scrive:Let's call it done then?
+[10.00.46] Rob Atkinson scrive:Done!

+ + + + + IRC Meeting - 31 July 2006 (created) + +
+ +

+ News + created by Adrian Custer (acuster@gmail.com) on Jul 31, 2006 15:02 +

+ +

A sloppy weekly meeting:
+1) Nothing said against YourKit
+2) 2.2.0 good to go (except it doesn't compile right at this instant)
+3) 2.2.0 still scheduled to go out after rgould's exams (unless you decide to release before)
+4) WFS will be made permissive to incorrect requrests (but with some mumbling)

+ +

* cholmes (n=chatzill@dsl027-150-159.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #geotools
+* gtbot (n=gtbot@mail.refractions.net) has joined #geotools
+<chorner> gtbot, add your favorite profiler
+<gtbot> Added agenda item '1: your favorite profiler' to the list.
+<chorner> gtbot, add 2.2.0
+<gtbot> Added agenda item '2: 2.2.0' to the list.
+<Jesse_Eichar77> gtbot, add JMapPane
+<gtbot> Added agenda item '3: JMapPane' to the list.
+<acuster> gtbot, welcome back\!
+<acuster> gtbot, insult
+<acuster> nah, you're not a real bot yet.
+<simboss> gtbot, subversion
+<simboss> cool
+<simboss> :P
+<acuster> a little light reading: [http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1204432.ece]
+* jdeolive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<acuster> okay, we going to start?
+<acuster> cholmes, chorner ethangio FrankW Jesse_Eichar77 simboss ?
+<cholmes> I'm here.
+<simboss> ready
+* FrankW is reading about Lebanon...
+<FrankW> but I'll try to pay attention here too.
+<acuster> 1) was andrea's idea, seems to have got a good reception
+* iant\_ (n=ijturton@69-162-63-113.stcgpa.adelphia.net) has joined #geotools
+<acuster> anyone got something to add?
+<iant_> hi
+<acuster> iant_, just starting on (1)
+<acuster> gtbot, list
+<gtbot> Agenda Items:
+<gtbot> 1: your favorite profiler
+<gtbot> 2: 2.2.0
+<gtbot> 3: JMapPane
+<gtbot> End of agenda items.
+<acuster> okay on to (2) then
+<acuster> we are working on getting jmappane working
+<acuster> the javadocs should be fixed but can only be verified during release
+<acuster> any other showstoppers?
+<acuster> there have been some fixes going in
+<acuster> are they done?
+<acuster> okay, assuming the resounding silence means 2.2.0 is good to release 
+<acuster> when anyone can pull it off.
+<acuster> on to (3)
+<acuster> Jesse_Eichar77, you wanted to say stuff?
+* FrankW shouts out some silence.
+<iant_> ?
+<iant_> ping?
+<acuster> okay, anything else?
+<simboss> Jesse_Eichar77
+<simboss> I have a question guys
+* acuster can pull out the old; ask, don't ask to ask
+* rgould (n=rgould@S010600014a5e5049.gv.shawcable.net) has joined #geotools
+<rgould> hi
+<Jesse_Eichar77> meeting with Paul 1 sec
+<acuster> go simboss,
+<simboss> is there any timeline for 2.3?
+<simboss> I might have forgotten sory
+<Jesse_Eichar77> ok back
+* iant\_ has quit ()
+<Jesse_Eichar77> simboss:
+<Jesse_Eichar77> not that I know
+<simboss> ok
+<Jesse_Eichar77> I didn't have too much to say about the JMapPane.  
+<Jesse_Eichar77> But I understand there are some issues with it?
+<Jesse_Eichar77> (Just parroting back what Jody told me)
+<acuster> JMapPane has been moved into ext/ on the 2.2 branch
+<simboss> andrea came up with some issues
+<simboss> he sent out an email
+<acuster> as well as some extra fluff
+<simboss> abou ti
+<simboss> it
+* iant\_ (n=ijturton@69-162-63-113.stcgpa.adelphia.net) has joined #geotools
+<acuster> the fluff (filter stuff) will be chopped out
+<iant_> hi again
+<Jesse_Eichar77> so nobody is maintaining it?
+<acuster> the CRSPicker can't be made to work trivially so it will be cut
+<Jesse_Eichar77> welcome back.
+<acuster> which leaves us with a nice lean widget
+<acuster> which is *all* that Geotools should have
+<Jesse_Eichar77> so who's doing the cutting?
+<iant_> ping?
+<acuster> hey iant\_
+<acuster> you going to work on JMapPane? Do you have time?
+<iant_> hi - I'm having connection problems
+<iant_> I'll try to work on it
+<acuster> Jody was doing some cutting
+<iant_> I'm still trying to sort my home network after house move
+<acuster> as far as I'm concerned, it's good enough to ship
+<Jesse_Eichar77> ok cool
+<acuster> we don't really care if it's full of bugs
+<acuster> since it's not really part of geotools
+<Jesse_Eichar77> :D
+<iant_> Feel free to all chip in and I'll be module maintainer
+<acuster> it exists uniquely as a teaching device for others to start with
+<acuster> and for me to document Geotools
+<iant_> and also as the most requested feature in 2.2.0 since styledmappane was removed :-)
+<Jesse_Eichar77> ok.  so I missed the bit about 2.2.0
+<acuster> yes, but that would indicate that it were a "feature" and it has ceased to be 
+(acuster> since it is a convinient time to pass the work on to the users)
+<Jesse_Eichar77> As far as I know it is ready to go out.
+<chorner> *almost*
+<Jesse_Eichar77> do we have anyone to release it?
+<acuster> gtbot, add javadocs
+<gtbot> Added agenda item '4: javadocs' to the list.
+<chorner> i'm adding a couple fixes in the next couple hours, but it is unlikely it will 
+<chorner> be released before then
+<chorner> also: the 2.2.x build is broken (ext/go)
+<acuster> how?
+* iant\_ has quit ()
+<chorner> [INFO] Compilation failure
+<chorner> c:\java\geotools\2.2.x\ext\go\src\org\geotools\geometry\array\CompressionLevel.java:[112,19] compareTo(java.lang.Object) in org.ge
+<chorner> otools.geometry.array.CompressionLevel cannot override compareTo(java.lang.Object) in org.opengis.util.CodeList; overridden method
+<chorner>  is final
+<acuster> rgould, if no one else beats you to it, will you be able to release after your exams?
+<rgould> acuster, certainly
+<acuster> cool
+<Jesse_Eichar77> sweet.
+<Jesse_Eichar77> richard did you add you agenda item?
+<Jesse_Eichar77> about wfs capabilities?
+<rgould> oh
+<rgould> forgot about that
+<rgould> gtbot, add Specification Purity
+<gtbot> Added agenda item '5: Specification Purity' to the list.
+<acuster> anyone have anything to say on (1) the profiler (2) 2.2.0 or (3) jmappane?
+<Jesse_Eichar77> Profiler:  I like YourKit
+<Jesse_Eichar77> done
+<acuster> gtbot, list
+<gtbot> Agenda Items:
+<gtbot> 1: your favorite profiler
+<gtbot> 2: 2.2.0
+<gtbot> 3: JMapPane
+<gtbot> 4: javadocs
+<gtbot> 5: Specification Purity
+<gtbot> End of agenda items.
+<acuster> okay a quick (4)
+<acuster> i'm writing a stupid example app that tries to cover a lot of the code base,
+<acuster> as of now there is one (1)  import from geoapi
+<acuster> when you try to learn geotools by studying geoapi,
+<acuster> you waste a lot of time because it's not at all clear what is relevant and what is not
+<acuster> Would it be possible, in future releases, to somehow trim down the geoapi released with Geotools
+<acuster> to contain only the relevant modules?
+* cholmes has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
+<acuster> I don't expect an answer, but am raising the possibility
+<acuster> Done
+<Jesse_Eichar77> A good point that
+* cholmes (n=chatzill@dsl027-150-159.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #geotools
+<Jesse_Eichar77> don't have too much of interest to say about it though.
+<acuster> okay, on to (5)
+<acuster> rgould?
+<rgould> ok
+<rgould> so due to a recent bug issue in uDig, I discovered that the WFS plugin in geotools 
+<rgould> explodes if it encounters a Capabilities document that does not conform to the WFS specification
+<rgould> the problem is that the part that was missing from the document was not essential to use the service
+<rgould> now
+<rgould> a couple years ago, when I was implementing the WMS plugin, James gasped in dismay as
+<rgould> he realized I was permitting servers that did not conform to the WMS specification to be accessed normally
+<rgould> i would like to do the same to WFS
+<rgould> (so we can access these broken servers)
+<FrankW> rgould: \+\+ on permissiveness.
+<rgould> I thought it might be a good idea to come up with a general concensus regarding what 
+<rgould> to do when something breaks specification
+<rgould> It has been a goal of uDig to communicate with every server out there
+<rgould> that's pretty much all I have to say
+<acuster> can you communicate but raise a big red flag?
+<cholmes> I'm inclined to say that we should shoot some sort of warning when something's not right.
+<cholmes> yeah, what acuster said.
+<rgould> that should be easy to do
+* iant_\_ (n=ijturton@69-162-63-113.stcgpa.adelphia.net) has joined #geotools
+<rgould> and then a client like uDig can look at the flag and perhaps display a message to curious users
+<acuster> well, it's also making user know that it's not uDig's problem
+<cholmes> Hopefully even at the udig level - have a red flag that says the user could get in 
+<cholmes> touch with the provider of the service about properly meeting the specification.
+<acuster> or Geotools'
+<rgould> right
+<rgould> heh - OWS services include contact information - uDig could assist in contacting them :-)
+<cholmes> Even better, windows style 'send an error report now' - which would send some canned email.
+<rgould> yeah
+<cholmes> Yeah, what rgould said.
+<acuster> yes, that's exactly the kind of thing that will cover Geotools in the long term
+<acuster> very nice
+<acuster> \+1 for exapansiveness, if accompanied by a nasty note :-)
+<rgould> okay, so unless there are objections, i will make WFS permissive and will add a flag 
+<rgould> to indicate that the server has broken specification (and maybe some messages regarding it to)
+<rgould> hahaha
+<acuster> so we are done: open floor for five minutes and then we can close the meeting
+<acuster> well, that's not going anywhere.
+<acuster> so we are done. Thanks all
+<rgould> thanks for running the meeting
+<FrankW> later
+<chorner> someone will need to post logs
+<rgould> gtbot, stop
+<gtbot> Logging stopped.
+<gtbot> Posting news to GeoTools confluence...
+<gtbot> Successfully posted.
+<rgould> ;)
+<chorner> i don't remember anyone pressing start
+<rgould> oh
+<rgould> you are right
+<rgould> it is empty
+

+ + + + + Breakout Coverage Plugin IRC meeting 7-27-2006 (updated) + +
+ +

+ News + updated by Chris Holmes (cholmes@openplans.org) to + revision 2 + on Jul 27, 2006 17:22. + created by Saul Farber (sjf8@yahoo.com) on Jul 27, 2006 16:44 +

Summary: simboss drops some knowledge on how to write grid coverage plugins.

+ +

(16:32:18) - simboss: (i know I am boring but I might be able to give you some simple solutions)
+(16:32:22) - simboss: ok
+(16:32:30) - JonathanWong: no problem
+(16:32:32) - simboss: what about georeferencing information?
+(16:32:43) - simboss: do you store them in an header
+(16:32:46) - simboss: or separately?
+(16:32:51) - JonathanWong: thats contained in the file
+(16:32:53) - JonathanWong: as a header
+(16:33:01) - simboss: cool
+(16:33:05) - simboss: one last question
+(16:33:09) - simboss: what about tiling?
+(16:33:18) - JonathanWong: no
+(16:33:20) - simboss: did you took that into account?
+(16:33:28) - simboss: possibility to decimate on reading
+(16:33:40) - simboss: decimation=subsampling
+(16:33:49) - simboss: ?
+(16:34:29) - JonathanWong: no, you have to stream to the value you want
+(16:34:33) - JonathanWong: well i think its like that
+(16:34:50) - JonathanWong: i didnt develop the library to access the data in the file
+(16:35:01) - JonathanWong: i only a few details of the files make-up
+(16:35:13) - simboss: ok
+(16:35:19) - simboss: I am asking all these questions
+(16:35:22) - simboss: about the format itself
+(16:35:32) - simboss: since inside ImageIO there already the capability
+(16:35:36) - simboss: to read natively
+(16:35:43) - simboss: binary files
+(16:35:51) - simboss: I am using that inside the GTOPO30 plugin
+(16:36:00) - simboss: and it is simple fantastic
+(16:36:04) - simboss: very very fast
+(16:36:09) - simboss: support tiling
+(16:36:11) - simboss: and decimation
+(16:36:21) - JonathanWong: its not binary file with just data in it, the file kinda represents a file system
+(16:36:33) - simboss: yeah
+(16:36:39) - simboss: and plus we have an header
+(16:36:41) - JonathanWong: at the start of the file is header information
+(16:36:49) - simboss: hence no easy ImageIO solution
+(16:37:04) - JonathanWong: then there are record headers giving information to each grid (a grid is a record)
+(16:37:15) - JonathanWong: then follows the grid data
+(16:37:24) - simboss: I see...
+(16:37:30) - JonathanWong: a bit like a FAT
+(16:37:32) - simboss: much like a grib file
+(16:37:45) - simboss: a file made up of multiple records
+(16:37:47) - simboss: ok
+(16:37:53) - simboss: I think I got it
+(16:38:10) - simboss: how much time do you have to spend on this?
+(16:38:14) - JonathanWong: i'm not similiar with gribs make up, but i know they are quite different
+(16:38:30) - JonathanWong: im guessing about 1week
+(16:38:31) - simboss: I mean
+(16:38:41) - simboss: do you need something very very quickly
+(16:38:48) - simboss: ok
+(16:38:53) - simboss: that is quickly
+(16:39:12) - JonathanWong: spending about 8 hours a day on it.
+(16:39:40) - simboss: ok
+(16:39:50) - simboss: here is the issues
+(16:39:53) - simboss: up to now
+(16:39:58) - simboss: the geoserver is built for managing
+(16:40:02) - simboss: 2d grids
+(16:40:26) - JonathanWong: I've already got geoserver to find my new file format. after extending the gridcoverage classes in geotools
+(16:40:39) - simboss: while your file will have multiple coverages in it
+(16:40:48) - simboss: (that's great man)
+(16:41:03) - simboss: up to now geoserver would only use the first one
+(16:41:11) - JonathanWong: ok
+(16:41:15) - simboss: changing this would not be too difficult
+(16:41:33) - simboss: and it is something we should do next week
+(16:41:40) - simboss: on purpose for grib files
+(16:42:02) - simboss: (remove should, add will since it is a customer requirement)
+(16:42:32) - simboss: If you need something quick and not too dirty
+(16:42:35) - simboss: I am pretty sure
+(16:42:42) - JonathanWong: you don't have to go that far for me...lol
+(16:42:45) - simboss: that in a week or at most 10 days
+(16:42:58) - simboss: we should get you there
+(16:43:38) - simboss: do not worry this help me focus on the path
+(16:43:44) - simboss: I have too many other things to do
+(16:43:48) - simboss: at the same time
+(16:43:50) - simboss: deadlines
+(16:43:51) - JonathanWong: ok
+(16:44:00) - simboss: make sharp
+(16:44:02) - simboss:
+(16:44:21) - JonathanWong: do you know of any documentation for creating new coverage plugins to support new file formats
+(16:44:30) - simboss: neve had time
+(16:44:34) - simboss: to write some
+(16:44:35) - simboss:
+(16:44:58) - simboss: tell me where you are right now
+(16:45:03) - simboss: and what you already did
+(16:45:41) - JonathanWong: after a lot of searching, I realised I had to implement four interfaces
+(16:45:42) - JonathanWong: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Developing+GridCoverage+Formats
+(16:46:19) - JonathanWong: i've almost done that expect the read and write methods.
+(16:46:40) - JonathanWong: i wrapped it in a jar and stuck it in the lib/ folder
+(16:46:47) - simboss: cool
+(16:47:17) - JonathanWong: restarted geoserver and went to Config->Data->CoveragePlugins in the web admin and my file format showed up
+(16:47:40) - simboss: k
+(16:47:55) - simboss: this means that your factory is fine
+(16:48:00) - JonathanWong: I tried to add a file of my format as a coverage store, but couldn't do it because I hadn't implemented the read method
+(16:48:27) - JonathanWong: so at the moment I'll be doing that.
+(16:49:19) - JonathanWong: I was wondering if there was any doc to help me a bit, none of the api doc for GeoTools is filled. I only know the methods I have to implement, not what they mean or suppose to do exactly
+(16:49:41) - simboss: sorry about that
+(16:49:56) - simboss: but the best documentation availaible is
+(16:50:06) - simboss: lokking at the other plugin
+(16:50:38) - simboss: would it be a problem for you to share your code?
+(16:50:49) - simboss: so that I can take a look and give some help?
+(16:51:44) - JonathanWong: it shouldn't be. I'd have to find out from my supervisor, but I don't think it will. I don't have the code on me at the moment, it's on a machine at work
+(16:52:49) - simboss: ok
+(16:52:54) - simboss: tomorrow
+(16:53:05) - simboss: I will be working
+(16:53:08) - simboss: on geoserver
+(16:53:13) - simboss: during the afternoon
+(16:53:25) - simboss: find out if you can share the code
+(16:53:28) - simboss: even temporarly
+(16:53:32) - JonathanWong: what country are you located?
+(16:53:36) - simboss: italy
+(16:53:43) - JonathanWong: I'm in the uk
+(16:53:45) - simboss: and i will try to help you out on this
+(16:53:52) - JonathanWong: thank you
+(16:53:53) - simboss: I guessed that from the email
+(16:53:56) - simboss: .uk
+(16:53:58) - simboss:
+(16:54:24) - simboss: I am smart even if I do not look like smart :-*
+(16:54:29) - simboss:
+(16:54:32) - simboss: ok
+(16:54:38) - JonathanWong: no probs
+(16:54:49) - simboss: find out if you can share the code
+(16:54:51) - simboss: if so
+(16:55:00) - simboss: we will find some space
+(16:55:07) - JonathanWong: cool
+(16:55:08) - simboss: on an svn repository
+(16:55:23) - simboss: and in the end will put it on geotools if you want
+(16:55:51) - JonathanWong: We are trying to use a lot of open source software so I don't think it will be a problem
+(16:56:08) - simboss: fair enough
+(16:56:24) - simboss: sfarber
+(16:56:34) - sfarber: hi there!
+(16:56:45) - simboss: what were you saying about the arcsde rasters?
+(16:57:15) - sfarber: I'm in a similar position to Jonathan. i'd like to implement a coverage plugin for Arcsde stored rasters.
+(16:57:37) - sfarber: Generally 3-banded, but possibly 4-banded.
+(16:58:00) - sfarber: In the end, I think I'll be following a lot of the other coverage plugins...and probably emailing you guys a lot.
+(16:58:16) - simboss: never played with them
+(16:58:25) - sfarber: Yeah, me neither. Here's the javadocs:
+(16:58:26) - simboss: 3 or 4 band is no big deal
+(16:59:37) - sfarber: http://edndoc.esri.com/ardsde/9.1/
+(16:59:56) - sfarber: and, of course:
+(17:00:13) - sfarber: http://edndoc.esri.com/arcsde/9.1/java_api/docs/index.html
+(17:01:25) - sfarber: Any idea of whether the SLD for rasters is supported by the geotools SLD renderer?
+(17:01:38) - simboss: I am checking the link...
+(17:02:49) - simboss: It seems quite cool
+(17:02:55) - simboss: not the easiest thing to do
+(17:02:57) - simboss: but quite cool
+(17:03:02) - simboss: it has tiling
+(17:04:01) - simboss: it has color map
+(17:04:05) - sfarber: How is tiling going to work for me? I sort-of figured I'd get a geographic extent, and then just ask the raster band for the data inside that extent. What does tiling give me?
+(17:04:25) - sfarber: Let me ask the above question slightly differently.
+(17:05:24) - sfarber: What does the GridCoverageReader return? Is the plugin expected to return a BufferedImage (or similar), or does it simply return the raw data and let a central raster-renderer handle the translation fromdata to image?
+(17:06:38) - simboss: ok
+(17:06:50) - simboss: How much do you know about JAI and ImageIO?
+(17:07:39) - sfarber: I've used ImageIO.read(), and I at one point used JAI to composite an 8-bit indexed PNG onto another 24-bit channeled PNG.
+(17:08:00) - simboss: ok
+(17:08:07) - simboss: here it is the full explanation
+(17:08:23) - simboss: (maybe we should this hence I do not think I have never explained this)
+(17:08:29) - simboss: the back end of a grid coverage
+(17:08:34) - simboss: is a panarimage
+(17:08:40) - sfarber: Sure.
+(17:08:40) - simboss: planarimage
+(17:09:12) - simboss: http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/forDevelopers/jai-apidocs/javax/media/jai/PlanarImage.html
+(17:09:17) - simboss: if you look at it
+(17:09:24) - simboss: you will se that is an abstract class
+(17:09:35) - simboss: implementing RenderedImage
+(17:09:38) - simboss: plus ImageJAI
+(17:09:47) - simboss: so it is compatible with both
+(17:09:50) - sfarber: yep.
+(17:09:52) - simboss: Java2D and JAI
+(17:10:02) - sfarber: Ahh.
+(17:10:05) - simboss: it has all the basic method for tiling
+(17:10:13) - simboss: tile caching
+(17:10:23) - simboss: converting to bufferedimage
+(17:11:10) - simboss: it has the base concepts for building processing chains
+(17:11:30) - simboss: basically directed acyclic graphs of image processing operations
+(17:11:47) - simboss: it has the capability to use tile scheduling
+(17:11:52) - simboss: to cut it short
+(17:11:58) - sfarber: So I need to implement 'getRaster(tilex, tiley)' in a class extending PlanarImage, mapping that tile x/y onton my back-end data source.
+(17:12:02) - simboss: it is the base block for robust raster management
+(17:12:15) - simboss: (I am getting there )
+(17:12:25) - simboss: ok
+(17:12:25) - sfarber: cool, I'll be more patient.
+(17:12:30) - simboss: but planarimage is abstract
+(17:12:33) - simboss: so you need
+(17:12:37) - simboss: specializations
+(17:12:45) - simboss: think about the nodes of the chains
+(17:12:54) - simboss: we talked about at the beginnng
+(17:13:04) - simboss: usually the very first one
+(17:13:11) - simboss: is connected to a data source
+(17:13:16) - simboss: that can be both on disk
+(17:13:20) - simboss: on memory
+(17:13:22) - simboss: or in a db
+(17:13:27) - simboss: our case
+(17:13:35) - simboss: db or disk is quite the same
+(17:13:56) - simboss: raeding a raster into a planar image subclass
+(17:14:01) - simboss: is an operation
+(17:14:06) - simboss: maybe the simplest
+(17:14:09) - simboss: but it is an operation
+(17:14:13) - simboss: and there is an operator
+(17:14:15) - simboss: for doing so
+(17:15:09) - simboss: called ImageReadOpImage
+(17:15:11) - simboss: if I am right
+(17:16:02) - simboss: yeah
+(17:16:10) - simboss: ImageReadOpImage
+(17:16:29) - simboss: that basically extends some subclasses of PlanarImage
+(17:16:32) - simboss: to provide you
+(17:16:35) - simboss: with a planar image
+(17:16:37) - JonathanWong: thanks for your help simboss, im off and i'll see about that code, as i said, it shoudn't be a problem
+(17:16:45) - simboss: that is backed by
+(17:16:50) - simboss: (coolman, take care)
+(17:16:58) - simboss: a file on some storage
+(17:17:05) - JonathanWong left the room (quit: ).
+(17:17:09) - simboss: you still there saul ?
+(17:17:25) - simboss: I am afraid I made you fell asleep
+(17:17:27) - simboss:
+(17:17:45) - sfarber: nope, not asleep!
+(17:17:52) - sfarber: trying to find javadocs for ImageReadOpImage
+(17:17:53) - simboss: ok
+(17:18:01) - simboss: you won't find
+(17:18:11) - simboss: youhave to download imageio code
+(17:18:11) - sfarber: yeah, discovering that.
+(17:18:17) - cholmes: when you guys finish could you post this log? Just post it in the news as a breakout irc, and then you probably want to link from the WCS documentation, as there's valuable stuff here for anyone wanting to implement.
+(17:18:28) - sfarber: Will do chris.
+(17:18:36) - cholmes: And it sounds like we're going to have people wanting to implement more readers
+(17:18:45) - simboss: hopefully
+(17:18:47) - simboss:
+(17:18:52) - simboss: ok
+(17:18:56) - simboss: we reached the point
+(17:19:05) - simboss: that the node of the chain
+(17:19:12) - simboss: to do Input
+(17:19:16) - simboss: is ImageReadOpImage
+(17:19:25) - simboss: but how can you impement new readers?
+(17:19:56) - simboss: ( I should charge for this )
+(17:20:12) - simboss: not surprisingly you need to write
+(17:20:16) - simboss: and ImageIO plugin
+(17:20:28) - simboss: subclassing ImageReader class
+(17:20:42) - simboss: there you will have to implement the logic to load tiles
+(17:20:46) - simboss: and do subsetting
+(17:20:48) - simboss: decimation
+(17:20:52) - simboss: and whatever you want
+(17:20:56) - simboss: and you will get for free
+(17:21:00) - simboss: -tile caching
+(17:21:04) - simboss: -ile recycling
+(17:21:21) - simboss: -multithreaded tile schedulin
+(17:21:35) - simboss: -i/o control framework
+(17:21:50) - simboss: -extensible read and write param
+(17:21:54) - simboss: and last but not least
+(17:22:03) - simboss: extensible streams for doing i/o
+(17:22:08) - simboss: so
+(17:22:09) - simboss: in the end
+(17:22:12) - simboss: the key
+(17:22:13) - simboss: is
+(17:22:20) - simboss: writing plugins for the ImageIO lib
+(17:22:31) - simboss: which is not a trivual task by itself
+(17:22:42) - simboss: but I have been doing this for months
+(17:22:46) - simboss: and I can tell you
+(17:22:50) - simboss: that it is way cool
+(17:22:53) - simboss: next week
+(17:23:00) - simboss: I shoudl release
+(17:23:05) - simboss: the new asciigrid plugin
+(17:23:16) - simboss: a friend of mine implemented it as a univ project
+(17:23:18) - simboss: I tok it
+(17:23:21) - simboss: and improve
+(17:23:38) - simboss: it is able to read asscci grids of 200 mb
+(17:23:43) - simboss: very very fast
+(17:23:51) - simboss: and also put them
+(17:24:04) - simboss: behind an ImageReadOpImage
+(17:24:25) - simboss: One last annotation
+(17:24:37) - simboss: You will not find javadoc of ImageReadOpImage
+(17:24:38) - simboss: because
+(17:24:43) - simboss: you are not supposed to see it
+(17:24:51) - simboss: this is an architectural thing of JAI-ImageIO
+(17:24:59) - sfarber: yeah,.
+(17:25:04) - simboss: you play with nodes that are called RenderedOp
+(17:25:14) - simboss: (or RenderableOp but this another story)
+(17:25:27) - simboss: and they basically wrap things
+(17:25:33) - simboss: like ImagereadOpImage
+(17:25:45) - simboss: or FilteredSubsampleOp
+(17:25:50) - simboss: or the like
+(17:25:57) - simboss: to provide a unique interface
+(17:26:02) - simboss: between processing nodes
+(17:26:08) - simboss: If I had time
+(17:26:14) - simboss: I should write some articles on this
+(17:26:31) - simboss: I am realizing that it would be cool since there is no documentaion around
+(17:26:33) - simboss: done!!!
+(17:26:41) - sfarber: cool!
+(17:26:47) - simboss: now you can wake up
+(17:27:06) - simboss: I hope it helped a bit
+(17:28:22) - sfarber: Indeed. I'll probably have some specific questions when I get around to writing classes, but for now that's awesome. Thanks!
+(17:28:46) - simboss: cool man
+(17:29:05) - simboss: about the raster symbolizer
+(17:29:14) - simboss: Alessio and me
+(17:29:19) - simboss: did dome initial wor
+(17:29:21) - simboss: work
+(17:29:22) - sfarber: I'll post this chat, and then we can distill it down to a guide when we get the chance.
+(17:29:24) - simboss: to get ti work again
+(17:29:42) - simboss: but still a lot of work needs to be done
+(17:29:47) - simboss: when martin will be back
+(17:29:48) - sfarber: So there's an "old" version that's kind of busted?
+(17:29:54) - simboss: I will discuss this with him
+(17:30:02) - sfarber: excellent.
+(17:30:04) - simboss: right now
+(17:30:14) - simboss: it does min/max scale
+(17:30:22) - simboss: plus some palette trasnformation
+(17:30:29) - simboss: I will put an example
+(17:30:33) - simboss: inside the geoserver next week
+(17:30:42) - sfarber: cool.

+ + +

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		Summary: simboss drops some knowledge on how to write grid coverage plugins.

		(16:32:18) - simboss: (i know I am boring but I might be able to give you some simple solutions)
		(16:32:22) - simboss: ok
		(16:32:30) - JonathanWong: no problem
		(16:32:32) - simboss: what about georeferencing information?
		(16:32:43) - simboss: do you store them in an header
		(16:32:46) - simboss: or separately?
		(16:32:51) - JonathanWong: thats contained in the file
		(16:32:53) - JonathanWong: as a header
		(16:33:01) - simboss: cool
		(16:33:05) - simboss: one last question
		(16:33:09) - simboss: what about tiling?
		(16:33:18) - JonathanWong: no
		(16:33:20) - simboss: did you took that into account?
		(16:33:28) - simboss: possibility to decimate on reading
		(16:33:40) - simboss: decimation=subsampling
		(16:33:49) - simboss: ?
		(16:34:29) - JonathanWong: no, you have to stream to the value you want
		(16:34:33) - JonathanWong: well i think its like that
		(16:34:50) - JonathanWong: i didnt develop the library to access the data in the file
		(16:35:01) - JonathanWong: i only a few details of the files make-up
		(16:35:13) - simboss: ok
		(16:35:19) - simboss: I am asking all these questions
		(16:35:22) - simboss: about the format itself
		(16:35:32) - simboss: since inside ImageIO there already the capability
		(16:35:36) - simboss: to read natively
		(16:35:43) - simboss: binary files
		(16:35:51) - simboss: I am using that inside the GTOPO30 plugin
		(16:36:00) - simboss: and it is simple fantastic
		(16:36:04) - simboss: very very fast
		(16:36:09) - simboss: support tiling
		(16:36:11) - simboss: and decimation
		(16:36:21) - JonathanWong: its not binary file with just data in it, the file kinda represents a file system
		(16:36:33) - simboss: yeah
		(16:36:39) - simboss: and plus we have an header
		(16:36:41) - JonathanWong: at the start of the file is header information
		(16:36:49) - simboss: hence no easy ImageIO solution :-)
		(16:37:04) - JonathanWong: then there are record headers giving information to each grid (a grid is a record)
		(16:37:15) - JonathanWong: then follows the grid data
		(16:37:24) - simboss: I see...
		(16:37:30) - JonathanWong: a bit like a FAT
		(16:37:32) - simboss: much like a grib file
		(16:37:45) - simboss: a file made up of multiple records
		(16:37:47) - simboss: ok
		(16:37:53) - simboss: I think I got it
		(16:38:10) - simboss: how much time do you have to spend on this?
		(16:38:14) - JonathanWong: i'm not similiar with gribs make up, but i know they are quite different
		(16:38:30) - JonathanWong: im guessing about 1week
		(16:38:31) - simboss: I mean
		(16:38:41) - simboss: do you need something very very quickly
		(16:38:48) - simboss: ok
		(16:38:53) - simboss: that is quickly :-)
		(16:39:12) - JonathanWong: spending about 8 hours a day on it.
		(16:39:40) - simboss: ok
		(16:39:50) - simboss: here is the issues
		(16:39:53) - simboss: up to now
		(16:39:58) - simboss: the geoserver is built for managing
		(16:40:02) - simboss: 2d grids
		(16:40:26) - JonathanWong: I've already got geoserver to find my new file format. after extending the gridcoverage classes in geotools
		(16:40:39) - simboss: while your file will have multiple coverages in it
		(16:40:48) - simboss: (that's great man)
		(16:41:03) - simboss: up to now geoserver would only use the first one
		(16:41:11) - JonathanWong: ok
		(16:41:15) - simboss: changing this would not be too difficult
		(16:41:33) - simboss: and it is something we should do next week
		(16:41:40) - simboss: on purpose for grib files
		(16:42:02) - simboss: (remove should, add will since it is a customer requirement)
		(16:42:32) - simboss: If you need something quick and not too dirty
		(16:42:35) - simboss: I am pretty sure
		(16:42:42) - JonathanWong: you don't have to go that far for me...lol
		(16:42:45) - simboss: that in a week or at most 10 days
		(16:42:58) - simboss: we should get you there
		(16:43:38) - simboss: do not worry this help me focus on the path
		(16:43:44) - simboss: I have too many other things to do
		(16:43:48) - simboss: at the same time
		(16:43:50) - simboss: deadlines
		(16:43:51) - JonathanWong: ok
		(16:44:00) - simboss: make sharp
		(16:44:02) - simboss: :-)
		(16:44:21) - JonathanWong: do you know of any documentation for creating new coverage plugins to support new file formats
		(16:44:30) - simboss: neve had time
		(16:44:34) - simboss: to write some
		(16:44:35) - simboss: :-)
		(16:44:58) - simboss: tell me where you are right now
		(16:45:03) - simboss: and what you already did
		(16:45:41) - JonathanWong: after a lot of searching, I realised I had to implement four interfaces
		(16:45:42) - JonathanWong: http://docs.codehaus.org/display/GEOTOOLS/Developing+GridCoverage+Formats
		(16:46:19) - JonathanWong: i've almost done that expect the read and write methods.
		(16:46:40) - JonathanWong: i wrapped it in a jar and stuck it in the lib/ folder
		(16:46:47) - simboss: cool
		(16:47:17) - JonathanWong: restarted geoserver and went to Config->Data->CoveragePlugins in the web admin and my file format showed up
		(16:47:40) - simboss: k
		(16:47:55) - simboss: this means that your factory is fine
		(16:48:00) - JonathanWong: I tried to add a file of my format as a coverage store, but couldn't do it because I hadn't implemented the read method
		(16:48:27) - JonathanWong: so at the moment I'll be doing that.
		(16:49:19) - JonathanWong: I was wondering if there was any doc to help me a bit, none of the api doc for GeoTools is filled. I only know the methods I have to implement, not what they mean or suppose to do exactly
		(16:49:41) - simboss: sorry about that
		(16:49:56) - simboss: but the best documentation availaible is
		(16:50:06) - simboss: lokking at the other plugin
		(16:50:38) - simboss: would it be a problem for you to share your code?
		(16:50:49) - simboss: so that I can take a look and give some help?
		(16:51:44) - JonathanWong: it shouldn't be. I'd have to find out from my supervisor, but I don't think it will. I don't have the code on me at the moment, it's on a machine at work
		(16:52:49) - simboss: ok
		(16:52:54) - simboss: tomorrow
		(16:53:05) - simboss: I will be working
		(16:53:08) - simboss: on geoserver
		(16:53:13) - simboss: during the afternoon
		(16:53:25) - simboss: find out if you can share the code
		(16:53:28) - simboss: even temporarly
		(16:53:32) - JonathanWong: what country are you located?
		(16:53:36) - simboss: italy
		(16:53:43) - JonathanWong: I'm in the uk
		(16:53:45) - simboss: and i will try to help you out on this
		(16:53:52) - JonathanWong: thank you
		(16:53:53) - simboss: I guessed that from the email
		(16:53:56) - simboss: .uk
		(16:53:58) - simboss: :-)
		(16:54:24) - simboss: I am smart even if I do not look like smart :-*
		(16:54:29) - simboss: :-)
		(16:54:32) - simboss: ok
		(16:54:38) - JonathanWong: no probs
		(16:54:49) - simboss: find out if you can share the code
		(16:54:51) - simboss: if so
		(16:55:00) - simboss: we will find some space
		(16:55:07) - JonathanWong: cool
		(16:55:08) - simboss: on an svn repository
		(16:55:23) - simboss: and in the end will put it on geotools if you want
		(16:55:51) - JonathanWong: We are trying to use a lot of open source software so I don't think it will be a problem
		(16:56:08) - simboss: fair enough
		(16:56:24) - simboss: sfarber
		(16:56:34) - sfarber: hi there!
		(16:56:45) - simboss: what were you saying about the arcsde rasters?
		(16:57:15) - sfarber: I'm in a similar position to Jonathan. i'd like to implement a coverage plugin for Arcsde stored rasters.
		(16:57:37) - sfarber: Generally 3-banded, but possibly 4-banded.
		(16:58:00) - sfarber: In the end, I think I'll be following a lot of the other coverage plugins...and probably emailing you guys a lot.
		(16:58:16) - simboss: never played with them
		(16:58:25) - sfarber: Yeah, me neither. Here's the javadocs:
		(16:58:26) - simboss: 3 or 4 band is no big deal
		(16:59:37) - sfarber: http://edndoc.esri.com/ardsde/9.1/
		(16:59:56) - sfarber: and, of course:
		(17:00:13) - sfarber: http://edndoc.esri.com/arcsde/9.1/java_api/docs/index.html
		(17:01:25) - sfarber: Any idea of whether the SLD for rasters is supported by the geotools SLD renderer?
		(17:01:38) - simboss: I am checking the link...
		(17:02:49) - simboss: It seems quite cool
		(17:02:55) - simboss: not the easiest thing to do
		(17:02:57) - simboss: but quite cool
		(17:03:02) - simboss: it has tiling
		(17:04:01) - simboss: it has color map
		(17:04:05) - sfarber: How is tiling going to work for me? I sort-of figured I'd get a geographic extent, and then just ask the raster band for the data inside that extent. What does tiling give me?
		(17:04:25) - sfarber: Let me ask the above question slightly differently.
		(17:05:24) - sfarber: What does the GridCoverageReader return? Is the plugin expected to return a BufferedImage (or similar), or does it simply return the raw data and let a central raster-renderer handle the translation fromdata to image?
		(17:06:38) - simboss: ok
		(17:06:50) - simboss: How much do you know about JAI and ImageIO?
		(17:07:39) - sfarber: I've used ImageIO.read(), and I at one point used JAI to composite an 8-bit indexed PNG onto another 24-bit channeled PNG.
		(17:08:00) - simboss: ok
		(17:08:07) - simboss: here it is the full explanation
		(17:08:23) - simboss: (maybe we should this hence I do not think I have never explained this)
		(17:08:29) - simboss: the back end of a grid coverage
		(17:08:34) - simboss: is a panarimage
		(17:08:40) - sfarber: Sure.
		(17:08:40) - simboss: planarimage
		(17:09:12) - simboss: http://java.sun.com/products/java-media/jai/forDevelopers/jai-apidocs/javax/media/jai/PlanarImage.html
		(17:09:17) - simboss: if you look at it
		(17:09:24) - simboss: you will se that is an abstract class
		(17:09:35) - simboss: implementing RenderedImage
		(17:09:38) - simboss: plus ImageJAI
		(17:09:47) - simboss: so it is compatible with both
		(17:09:50) - sfarber: yep.
		(17:09:52) - simboss: Java2D and JAI
		(17:10:02) - sfarber: Ahh.
		(17:10:05) - simboss: it has all the basic method for tiling
		(17:10:13) - simboss: tile caching
		(17:10:23) - simboss: converting to bufferedimage
		(17:11:10) - simboss: it has the base concepts for building processing chains
		(17:11:30) - simboss: basically directed acyclic graphs of image processing operations
		(17:11:47) - simboss: it has the capability to use tile scheduling
		(17:11:52) - simboss: to cut it short
		(17:11:58) - sfarber: So I need to implement 'getRaster(tilex, tiley)' in a class extending PlanarImage, mapping that tile x/y onton my back-end data source.
		(17:12:02) - simboss: it is the base block for robust raster management
		(17:12:15) - simboss: (I am getting there :-) )
		(17:12:25) - simboss: ok
		(17:12:25) - sfarber: cool, I'll be more patient.
		(17:12:30) - simboss: but planarimage is abstract
		(17:12:33) - simboss: so you need
		(17:12:37) - simboss: specializations
		(17:12:45) - simboss: think about the nodes of the chains
		(17:12:54) - simboss: we talked about at the beginnng
		(17:13:04) - simboss: usually the very first one
		(17:13:11) - simboss: is connected to a data source
		(17:13:16) - simboss: that can be both on disk
		(17:13:20) - simboss: on memory
		(17:13:22) - simboss: or in a db
		(17:13:27) - simboss: our case
		(17:13:35) - simboss: db or disk is quite the same
		(17:13:56) - simboss: raeding a raster into a planar image subclass
		(17:14:01) - simboss: is an operation
		(17:14:06) - simboss: maybe the simplest
		(17:14:09) - simboss: but it is an operation
		(17:14:13) - simboss: and there is an operator
		(17:14:15) - simboss: for doing so
		(17:15:09) - simboss: called ImageReadOpImage
		(17:15:11) - simboss: if I am right
		(17:16:02) - simboss: yeah
		(17:16:10) - simboss: ImageReadOpImage
		(17:16:29) - simboss: that basically extends some subclasses of PlanarImage
		(17:16:32) - simboss: to provide you
		(17:16:35) - simboss: with a planar image
		(17:16:37) - JonathanWong: thanks for your help simboss, im off and i'll see about that code, as i said, it shoudn't be a problem
		(17:16:45) - simboss: that is backed by
		(17:16:50) - simboss: (coolman, take care)
		(17:16:58) - simboss: a file on some storage
		(17:17:05) - JonathanWong left the room (quit: ).
		(17:17:09) - simboss: you still there saul ?
		(17:17:25) - simboss: I am afraid I made you fell asleep
		(17:17:27) - simboss: :-)
		(17:17:45) - sfarber: nope, not asleep!
		(17:17:52) - sfarber: trying to find javadocs for ImageReadOpImage
		(17:17:53) - simboss: ok
		(17:18:01) - simboss: you won't find
		(17:18:11) - simboss: youhave to download imageio code
		(17:18:11) - sfarber: yeah, discovering that.
		(17:18:17) - cholmes: when you guys finish could you post this log? Just post it in the news as a breakout irc, and then you probably want to link from the WCS documentation, as there's valuable stuff here for anyone wanting to implement.
		(17:18:28) - sfarber: Will do chris.
		(17:18:36) - cholmes: And it sounds like we're going to have people wanting to implement more readers :)
		(17:18:45) - simboss: hopefully
		(17:18:47) - simboss: :-)
		(17:18:52) - simboss: ok
		(17:18:56) - simboss: we reached the point