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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 17:49:48 -0400
From: Josh Elser <josh.elser@gmail.com>
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To: dev@accumulo.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?
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archived-at: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 21:49:59 -0000

But, at the same time, if we're going to be using this as a reliable 
means for whether or not our tests are passing (which I would expect all 
developers to be doing), it should be written down like we do for other 
developer-related knowledge.

I don't see why we can't present it with the caveats you state. It feels 
like we're starting a boys-club if we have something we're going to rely 
upon for development that we don't tell anyone about...

Christopher wrote:
> Given its "non-official" status (with respect to its affiliation with the
> Foundation and PMC), I'd prefer not to formally list it on the website.
> That might imply some long-term persistence and/or guarantees about
> availability to the community, and I cannot offer such guarantees.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser<josh.elser@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy
>> disclaimer you sent previously :)
>>
>> Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find
>> out about too?
>>
>> Christopher wrote:
>>> Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody else,
>> I
>>> can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just have
>> to
>>> accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and you'll be
>>> able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<josh.elser@gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty much
>>>> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
>>>>
>>>> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK waiting
>>>> for "Christopher response time" :)
>>>>
>>>> Michael Wall wrote:
>>>>> I am good with that option Christopher.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ctubbsii@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe to
>>>>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build
>> notification
>>>>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to Accumulo
>>>>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by editing the
>>>>>> existing jobs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you) to the
>>>> post-build
>>>>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@ list, no
>>>>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<keith@deenlo.com>
>>   wrote:
>>>>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending stuff to the
>>>> dev
>>>>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications to the dev
>> list
>>>>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the tests stable.  I'll
>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an opinion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ctubbsii@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
>>>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<ctubbsii@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252), it appears
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured to block email from non
>>>>>> apache
>>>>>>>>>>> addresses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions, if the Accumulo devs wish to
>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance of Jenkins:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins to send build
>>>>>>> notifications
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the configuration of
>>>>>> notifications@
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending build emails to dev
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the other hand, people that
>>>>>>> sign
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as my preference was that
>> I
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place on the moderators.
>> Plus,
>>>>>>>> INFRA
>>>>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat when I thanked
>> him
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the existing conventions
>> of
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> @
>>>>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
>>>>>> conventions
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible. I know how much work
>> it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests which diverge
>> from
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much already.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like #3 posed would be
>>>>>>>> preferable
>>>>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide infra conventions. But,
>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I remember correctly,
>>>>>> Commons
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build notifications to their
>>>>>> dev
>>>>>>>>> list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It doesn't even have to be
>>>>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you personally create that
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign up for.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically associated with
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed, which might be better,
>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way. The main purpose of
>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback to this community,
>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that feedback. If the RSS
>> feed
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save me some trouble,
>>>>>> though...
>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC. So maybe, RSS+IRC is
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> than enough.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev list (if possible).
>>>>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2, then #1 last.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>