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From Sean Busbey <bus...@cloudera.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Jenkins notifications to dev list?
Date Thu, 14 Jul 2016 22:32:45 GMT
What do we need to do to get an instance that we *would* be willing to
rely on as the PMC? We could file an INFRA ticket for a VM we handle
ourselves and then run a CI solution apart from the primary ASF
jenkins infra.

On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Christopher <ctubbsii@apache.org> wrote:
> That's just it... I don't want to encourage a dependence on it. It provides
> some utility, yes, but I don't want to cross over into the area of it being
> formally relied upon by the Accumulo PMC... because that raises the
> concerns which my previous disclaimer email was supposed to alleviate.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 5:50 PM Josh Elser <josh.elser@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> But, at the same time, if we're going to be using this as a reliable
>> means for whether or not our tests are passing (which I would expect all
>> developers to be doing), it should be written down like we do for other
>> developer-related knowledge.
>>
>> I don't see why we can't present it with the caveats you state. It feels
>> like we're starting a boys-club if we have something we're going to rely
>> upon for development that we don't tell anyone about...
>>
>> Christopher wrote:
>> > Given its "non-official" status (with respect to its affiliation with the
>> > Foundation and PMC), I'd prefer not to formally list it on the website.
>> > That might imply some long-term persistence and/or guarantees about
>> > availability to the community, and I cannot offer such guarantees.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:57 PM Josh Elser<josh.elser@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bueno. Makes sense to me and avoids future issues with that lengthy
>> >> disclaimer you sent previously :)
>> >>
>> >> Maybe have something on the website for contributors/new-devs to find
>> >> out about too?
>> >>
>> >> Christopher wrote:
>> >>> Well, it's already self-service, for those I've added. For anybody
>> else,
>> >> I
>> >>> can add you if you send me your GitHub username. Then, you'll just have
>> >> to
>> >>> accept my invitation to the revelc organization on GitHub, and you'll
>> be
>> >>> able to log in and add yourself to the post-build notifications.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:48 PM Josh Elser<josh.elser@gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Yeah, that's a decent intermediate step. Getting an email is pretty
>> much
>> >>>> the only thing that's going to force me to pay attention.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Making it self-service would be an even bigger plus, but I'm OK
>> waiting
>> >>>> for "Christopher response time" :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Michael Wall wrote:
>> >>>>> I am good with that option Christopher.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:36 PM, Christopher<ctubbsii@apache.org>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>> The other option is that if people really want to subscribe
to
>> >>>>>> notifications, I can just add their email to the post-build
>> >> notification
>> >>>>>> email list directly. Since I'm willing to grant access to
Accumulo
>> >>>>>> developers already, they can also just add themselves by
editing the
>> >>>>>> existing jobs.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> RIght now, I'm thinking: add yourself (or I can add you)
to the
>> >>>> post-build
>> >>>>>> notification, or use the RSS, is the best option. No dev@
list, no
>> >>>>>> notifications@ list. It's just too much trouble.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 2:28 PM Keith Turner<keith@deenlo.com>
>> >>   wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Personally I am not in favor of automated things sending
stuff to
>> the
>> >>>> dev
>> >>>>>>> list.  I like the dev just being discussion among humans.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Dylan Hutchison<
>> >>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu
>> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> On the other hand, sending failed build notifications
to the dev
>> >> list
>> >>>>>>>> motivates us to not break the tests and make the
tests stable.
>> I'll
>> >>>>>>> leave
>> >>>>>>>> it to your decision Chris, unless others have an
opinion.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Christopher<ctubbsii@apache.org>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02 PM Dylan Hutchison<
>> >>>>>>>>> dhutchis@cs.washington.edu>
>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Christopher<
>> ctubbsii@apache.org>
>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so after some investigation (
>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12252),
it appears
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>> notifications@ is simply configured
to block email from non
>> >>>>>> apache
>> >>>>>>>>>>> addresses.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> So, I have three possible solutions,
if the Accumulo devs wish
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>> receive
>> >>>>>>>>>>> build notifications from my instance
of Jenkins:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. I use my personal ASF creds on Jenkins
to send build
>> >>>>>>> notifications
>> >>>>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>>>>> myself.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. The Accumulo project request the
configuration of
>> >>>>>> notifications@
>> >>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>> changed to allow non-apache addresses.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> #2 sounds ideal to me, if possible.  Sending
build emails to dev
>> >>>>>>> would
>> >>>>>>>>>> drive some people to un-subscribe.  On the
other hand, people
>> that
>> >>>>>>> sign
>> >>>>>>>>> up
>> >>>>>>>>>> for notifications@ are asking for it.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> My reason for being reluctant to pick #2 as
my preference was
>> that
>> >> I
>> >>>>>>>> don't
>> >>>>>>>>> know what additional burden that might place
on the moderators.
>> >> Plus,
>> >>>>>>>> INFRA
>> >>>>>>>>> (or, at least Gavin, on that ticket and in HipChat
when I thanked
>> >> him
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>> clarifying) seemed pretty satisfied with the
existing conventions
>> >> of
>> >>>>>>>> being
>> >>>>>>>>> @
>> >>>>>>>>> apache.org only. I'd prefer to conform to Foundation-wide
>> >>>>>> conventions
>> >>>>>>>> when
>> >>>>>>>>> it comes to infra stuffs, whenever possible.
I know how much work
>> >> it
>> >>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>> on
>> >>>>>>>>> INFRA to constantly ask them for special requests
which diverge
>> >> from
>> >>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> norm, especially when they are managing so much
already.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Breaking conventions within our community like
#3 posed would be
>> >>>>>>>> preferable
>> >>>>>>>>> to me, rather than breaking Foundation-wide
infra conventions.
>> But,
>> >>>>>>>> you're
>> >>>>>>>>> right that it could annoy subscribers. If I
remember correctly,
>> >>>>>> Commons
>> >>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>> one community which does this, sending build
notifications to
>> their
>> >>>>>> dev
>> >>>>>>>>> list.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Another option is a new email list.  It
doesn't even have to be
>> >>>>>>>>>> ASF-affiliated.  It could be some list you
personally create
>> that
>> >>>>>>> many
>> >>>>>>>>>> Accumulo devs personally decide to sign
up for.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> That's possible. I could set up a list specifically
associated
>> with
>> >>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>> Jenkins server. It already has an RSS feed,
which might be
>> better,
>> >>>>>>>> though,
>> >>>>>>>>> if people want to subscribe to builds that way.
The main purpose
>> of
>> >>>>>> me
>> >>>>>>>>> setting it up was to provide direct feedback
to this community,
>> >>>>>> though,
>> >>>>>>>>> rather than force folks to go seek out that
feedback. If the RSS
>> >> feed
>> >>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>> sufficient for people, then that would save
me some trouble,
>> >>>>>> though...
>> >>>>>>>> it's
>> >>>>>>>>> certainly the easiest thing to do (nothing).
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Plus, it is also putting notifications in IRC.
So maybe, RSS+IRC
>> is
>> >>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>> than enough.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> 3. I configure Jenkins to post to the dev
list (if possible).
>> >>>>>>>>>>> My preference in order is #3, then #2,
then #1 last.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >
>>



-- 
busbey

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