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From Josh Elser <josh.el...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: ACCUMULO-958 - Pluggable encryption in walogs
Date Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:24:52 GMT
Given the discussion that's taken place today on this thread, I'd like 
to bring back around the discussion and refocus my concerns, given 
everyone else's comments, and perhaps generate some sort of summary, 
boiling down to "what next".

First, my own opinions, despite how my actions may/may not have been 
interpreted by others on this list, my reason for reviewing 958, and 
furthermore starting this thread, is purely from a QA standpoint. I 
would have not hesitated to start a similar discussion if the 
contributor was a more-seasoned Accumulo dev than I (of which I consider 
most to be), a coworker, former coworker, friend, stranger. I want to 
strongly bring focus back to the point: I reviewed a patch from a new 
contributor, I saw issues in the patch, gave (in my opinion) positive 
feedback to the contributor and received no further comments after what 
I consider a fair amount of time (5 days). My overarching reason for 
escalating this issue is that I am concerned that the longer we wait to 
*actually* finalize the first 1.5.0 release candidate, the less we will 
actually test.

In less words, I saw *code* (not an individual) which I had issues with, 
received no response to code review after a very quick patch 
application, and wanted to test the waters to see if others also had 
complaints.

(putting on my PMC hat to try to be unbiased, but *please* read for the 
thread for yourself)

Trying to summarize what has been discussed, there is concern from 
developers with the changes in regards to public API changes, lack of 
unit/functional tests, the lack of an actual encryption policy (one that 
encrypts) in the provided changes and the lack of a complete encryption 
solution. On the other side, issues were raised about stifling 
contributions due to a high barrier to entry to Accumulo which could 
cause project division and the provided code is disabled by default 
which shouldn't cause any harm to users/testers.

(putting my hat back on)

To voice my final opinion, I have *no* problem with including code for 
encrypting WALs if someone will publicly sign up to bring the quality of 
that code up to what I consider Accumulo-par. Meaning, someone signs up 
to actively participate in review with the devs and adhere to future 
deadlines of completion (so as to not delay a 1.5.0 release). I also 
expect the creation of some basic functional tests to give "us" some 
warm-fuzzies that the code doesn't create any performance issues. I 
would *like* to see an implementation of encryption using these changes 
(instead of just the promise), but I can understand if this is not 
feasible given the time constraints of a 1.5.0 release (but please 
explicitly tell the rest of us this if it is infeasible). I'm personally 
not super-concerned about new config values being added across a major 
release (public API).

Outside of the scope of just this issue, I'm going to 1) start thinking 
about ways that we can quantify/automate the issue of QA contributions 
to alleviate any future issues stemming from similar situations. 2) the 
next time we have a feature-freeze, we need to be as explicit as 
possible to avoid conflict (how can we make this process better).

- Josh

On 01/30/2013 03:13 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> It might be preferable if the patch included an example plugin.
> Otherwise, it's a bit hard to see how an open process can evaluate the
> design decisions, perhaps test a bit of performance, etc. I write this
> without having read a line of code. If this is, in fact, very simple
> and straightforward, then it might be a tempest in a teapot.
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Keith Turner <keith@deenlo.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:02 PM, William Slacum
>> <wilhelm.von.cloud@accumulo.net> wrote:
>>> Adam, I think you need to invert your premise. You need to consider the
>>> benefit to the community of some piece of work before committing back to
>>> the community. A plug-in framework has no value if there are no plug-ins.
>>> Adding in untested, unreviewed layers of indirection for reading and
>> We are CTR.  Any committer should be willing to open discussion and
>> review of any change they make.  I feel that very reasonable questions
>> about this change are not being answered or discussed.
>>
>>> writing data is a bad idea, plain and simple. Furthermore, you cannot say
>>> you are avoiding forking by supplying the patch and then openly state you
>>> are witholding portions that make said patch useful.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Adam Fuchs <scubafuchs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>
>>>> The release date was not pushed back just for this ticket -- there were
>>>> several other changes that motivated that date change. We can discuss that
>>>> aspect separately from a discussion of ACCUMULO-958, and we need to start
a
>>>> separate thread to talk about the remaining milestones before the 1.5.0
>>>> release.
>>>>
>>>> I would also like to amend your statement to be "... the patch has no value
>>>> added [for] general users [without the addition of extensions that are not
>>>> included with the patch]." This is a more accurate yet much weaker premise,
>>>> and you should consider the implications on the broader ecosystem.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that the main points against this patch are that it is
>>>> imperfect. I don't think that feature freeze is the time at which we should
>>>> demand perfection. Several valid issues have been raised, which should be
>>>> fixed by code freeze (the date of which is not yet set). However, the
>>>> utility of this work is obvious to me. At the end of the day, what bar are
>>>> we trying to set for inclusion of a patch?
>>>>
>>>> Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:05 AM, William Slacum <
>>>> wilhelm.von.cloud@accumulo.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bottom line, the patch has no value added to general users. The idea
>>>> behind
>>>>> pushing back a release date to stuff in unoperational code is very bad
>>>>> practice. It sets a precedent for not considering alternative approaches
>>>>> while simultaneously having no justification for choosing the approach
we
>>>>> did. If a specific customer/group/person wants a feature, and that
>>>> feature
>>>>> does not exist yet, the code is freely available to be modified,
>>>>> distributed and open to public review. Adam, I strongly disagree that
>>>>> forking the code is bad, considering the progress that other projects
>>>> make
>>>>> specifically because they have experimental forks (HBase).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Adam Fuchs <afuchs@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me attempt to make another argument for why the 958 patch should
be
>>>>>> included in 1.5.0. What this patch represents is not an encryption
>>>>> solution
>>>>>> for WAL, but an experimental extension point that will be used for
>>>>> building
>>>>>> an encryption solution as a pluggable module. We need to judge its
>>>> merit
>>>>>> based on whether it is a successful experimental extension point
or
>>>> not.
>>>>>> There are three main reasons for including the patch in 1.5.0:
>>>>>> 1. Test the performance impact of the null cipher solution (default
>>>>>> configuration) in all the performance tests we will be running for
the
>>>>>> 1.5.0 release. If it causes problems there then we can roll it back.
>>>>>> 2. Enable the use of this extension after 1.5 is released. External
>>>>>> experiments have dependencies on this extension point. Without the
>>>>>> extension point we will have to test with unreleased versions of
>>>>> Accumulo,
>>>>>> which would be less than ideal.
>>>>>> 3. It is not harmful and somebody wants it. The reason for wanting
this
>>>>>> code in is well documented, so you need a very strong reason to throw
>>>> it
>>>>>> out. Otherwise you will encourage forking of the project (which would
>>>> be
>>>>>> bad).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Eric Newton <eric.newton@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some comments about the comments in ACCUMULO-958:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josh writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "We still have the ability to review this even after the feature
>>>> freeze
>>>>>>> happens, it's just frustrating from my point of view in generating
>>>> the
>>>>>> best
>>>>>>> 1.5.0 candidate possible (we tend to go through x.y.0 releases
pretty
>>>>>> darn
>>>>>>> quick)."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Yes, but we get stuck on x.y.* for a year or so, so it does
become a
>>>>>> race
>>>>>>> to get all the features you want to see in the next year."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As Accumulo matures, we will need to start thinking a little
more
>>>>>> flexibly
>>>>>>> about what goes into minor releases.  We have implemented new
(small)
>>>>>>> features in minor releases before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would have no problem including ACCUMULO-958 into 1.5.1 after
a
>>>> test
>>>>>>> phase, and after some basic experience with the feature.  However
I'm
>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> uncomfortable including this in 1.5.0 because there is not a
single
>>>>> test,
>>>>>>> and no real implementation behind the factory that anyone would
use
>>>> In
>>>>>> Real
>>>>>>> Life.  Is this an appropriate API?  I have no idea.  Comments
in the
>>>>> code
>>>>>>> about the stability of the interface basically admit that the
author
>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>> completely comfortable with it, either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's not rush it, and when it is done right, I'm all for putting
it
>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the next release.  For now, I would hold back incorporating these
>>>>> changes
>>>>>>> until they are more fully implemented. After we branch 1.5, commit
>>>> this
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> trunk, and back-port it to the 1.5 branch when experience and
tests
>>>>> show
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is ready to be released.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Eric
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Josh Elser <josh.elser@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's been a few days and I haven't seen much chatter at all
on
>>>>>>>> ACCUMULO-958 [1] since the patch was applied. There are a
couple of
>>>>>>>> concerns I have that I definitely want to see addressed before
a
>>>>> 1.5.0
>>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - It worries me that the provided patch is fail-open (when
we can't
>>>>>> load
>>>>>>>> the configured encryption strategies/modules, we don't decrypt
>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> think for a security-minded database, we should probably
be
>>>>> defaulting
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> fail-close; but, that brings up an issue, what happens when
we
>>>> can't
>>>>>>>> encrypt a WAL? Do minor compactions fail gracefully? What
does
>>>>> Accumulo
>>>>>>> do?
>>>>>>>> - John said he had been reviewing the patch before he applied
it;
>>>> it
>>>>>>>> bothers me that there was a version of this patch that had
been
>>>>>> reviewed
>>>>>>>> privately for some amount of time when we had already pushed
back
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> feature freeze date by a week waiting for features that weren't
>>>> done.
>>>>>>>> - The author noted himself with the deprecation of the CryptoModule
>>>>>>>> interface that "we anticipate changing [this] in non-backwards
>>>>>> compatible
>>>>>>>> ways as we explore requirements for encryption in Accumulo...".
>>>> This
>>>>>>> tells
>>>>>>>> me that implementation of WAL encryption overall hasn't been
>>>> properly
>>>>>>>> thought out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given all of this, it gives me great pause to knowingly include
>>>> this
>>>>>>> patch
>>>>>>>> into a 1.5.0 release. I see no signs that this has been truly
>>>> thought
>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>> there is no default provided encryption strategy for 1.5.0
with
>>>> this
>>>>>>> patch
>>>>>>>> for the WAL and there is still no support at all for RFile
>>>> encryption
>>>>>> (no
>>>>>>>> end-to-end Accumulo encryption for a user). All of these
issues
>>>>>>> considered
>>>>>>>> make me believe that this is an incomplete feature that is
not
>>>> ready
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> Apache Accumulo release.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - Josh
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/**jira/browse/ACCUMULO-958<
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ACCUMULO-958>


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